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Author Topic: Had my 24v BOB Turbo mapped finally  (Read 26422 times)

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Offline Damocos

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Had my 24v BOB Turbo mapped finally
« on: August 02, 2011, 00:03:27 AM »
After 15months of being off the road and 11 months laying idle since doing my turbo conversion i can finally say that i have a pukka running 24v Turbo Sierra :D  :D On Tues and Weds last week i took my car to Emerald in Wotton Norfolk to see Dave Walker and he spent a good few hours with his laptop on his rollers to fine tune my home grown creation and eventually after a few hiccups i came away with a  very respectable figure...... :DD  :DD

Im now at a power figure of 330bhp@4877rpm and 376.5ftlbs torque@4377rpm  :th:  All this is being done at 10psi of boost.

Wasn't all plain sailing tho, we had a problem with the external wastegate........ on the 1st proper run the gate wasnt opening at all :shock:  so was holding boost 100%, had a look and realised i had the vacumn hoses plumbed in the wrong way on the wastegate body  :oops:  so a quick swap and another run revealed that the 10psi spring in the gate was staying closed till 16psi......bugger!!!!! Also blew a boost hose off too...... I obviously didnt tighten it properly as im using mikalor clamps. If we'd left it at that it would have only lasted a few miles before going bang..lol  As we didnt have a spare spring we took the wastegate off and cut the spring down to try and get it to a sensible boost level that we finally got after 2 attempts. Its only temporary and i now have 2 new different poundage springs to try and maybe a boost controller if needed.

Anyways, all i got to do now is give it a good clean and slap an mot on it..... I have driven it but only down a tiny road and couldnt get any speed so i dont know what its gonna be like but im sure it will give me a grin. All going well i will bring it to Ford Fair [-o<

Here are a few pics.....

After fitting the air filter, its a tight squeeze.....




Used my mate Pete's 24v Scorpio to tow the trailer the 140miles to Emerald  ;)





And at Emerald where Dave Walker worked his magic






My little helper, my boy Daniel....








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Offline Dave

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Re: Had my 24v BOB Turbo mapped finally
« Reply #1 on: August 02, 2011, 00:10:00 AM »

Well done mate.

You at Ford Fair with the car?

If so I will have a good look round her as she looks ace in the photo's!
Dave

Offline capri v8 driver

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Re: Had my 24v BOB Turbo mapped finally
« Reply #2 on: August 02, 2011, 08:46:27 AM »
very nice result. ;D
greetz Paul.

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Offline Mikey J

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Re: Had my 24v BOB Turbo mapped finally
« Reply #3 on: August 02, 2011, 10:58:05 AM »
Nice result but there may be more to come.  Cliffs racer was making 300 from 7 psi but he was on 7:1 c/r so had a degree of safety built in.  Your torque low down must be good.  Are you on stock c/r? 

Offline Lemon-Ade

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Re: Had my 24v BOB Turbo mapped finally
« Reply #4 on: August 02, 2011, 11:44:58 AM »
Congratulations mate you should be proud that's a very nice figure ;D and the car is looking awesome to, a really nice stance and looks so clean  :mellow: a credit to you. Glad it all went well for you and you got there in the end with only a few small hicups. I will look out for you at ford fair, I may have a stand pass for the Middx RSOC they would love yours mate, let me know.

Ade

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Offline mk2 cossie

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Re: Had my 24v BOB Turbo mapped finally
« Reply #5 on: August 02, 2011, 15:49:52 PM »
if its the one ive seen on passionford, its a standard engine with the manifolds upsidedown  ;D

looks very good, and good figures there too  :mellow:

Offline v6gerry

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Re: Had my 24v BOB Turbo mapped finally
« Reply #6 on: August 02, 2011, 16:52:47 PM »
Hi i remember this from a while back , very good job you done there , that is really good figures form a std bob you must have bigger injectors ? , what clutch are you useing , i have a std boa single turbo had problem with boost but now sorted , but std cossy escort clutch wont hold the power on full boost .
v6gerry

Offline Leebay

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Re: Had my 24v BOB Turbo mapped finally
« Reply #7 on: August 02, 2011, 17:47:23 PM »
Weapon  ;D nice tidy saph you got there mate.


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Offline Damocos

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Re: Had my 24v BOB Turbo mapped finally
« Reply #8 on: August 02, 2011, 21:42:00 PM »
if its the one ive seen on passionford, its a standard engine with the manifolds upsidedown  ;D

looks very good, and good figures there too  :mellow:

No its not that one mate, i know what one you are on about and that was a BOA. Myself and a friend made the manifold ourselves ^-^
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Offline Lemon-Ade

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Re: Had my 24v BOB Turbo mapped finally
« Reply #9 on: August 02, 2011, 21:44:32 PM »
That was Chaffe, nice car though  :mellow:

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Offline Damocos

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Re: Had my 24v BOB Turbo mapped finally
« Reply #10 on: August 02, 2011, 21:45:19 PM »
Nice result but there may be more to come.  Cliffs racer was making 300 from 7 psi but he was on 7:1 c/r so had a degree of safety built in.  Your torque low down must be good.  Are you on stock c/r? 

Yeah, unfortunatley im on std comp ratio :( Dave at Emerald said if i had low comp and some arp's it would make so much more.....  ;)
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Offline Damocos

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Re: Had my 24v BOB Turbo mapped finally
« Reply #11 on: August 02, 2011, 21:50:07 PM »
Hi i remember this from a while back , very good job you done there , that is really good figures form a std bob you must have bigger injectors ? , what clutch are you useing , i have a std boa single turbo had problem with boost but now sorted , but std cossy escort clutch wont hold the power on full boost .
v6gerry

Alright Gerry..... Im using some 440cc side feeds from an Impreza, they good for the spec i have. Im on a 4 paddle AP centre plate with the standard cos 4x4 clutch, holds the power no problem but its not user friendly...... i get a tiny bit of judder when slowing down through the box as well as the pulling away but im learning how to manage it ;)
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Offline Damocos

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Re: Had my 24v BOB Turbo mapped finally
« Reply #12 on: August 02, 2011, 21:54:49 PM »
Congratulations mate you should be proud that's a very nice figure ;D and the car is looking awesome to, a really nice stance and looks so clean  :mellow: a credit to you. Glad it all went well for you and you got there in the end with only a few small hicups. I will look out for you at ford fair, I may have a stand pass for the Middx RSOC they would love yours mate, let me know.

Ade

Thanks Ade, was a shame you didnt get yours up to Dave when i was there..... Would have loved to seen it ;) I was talking to ya mate that took ya spot, he seemed a nice fella, even took me out in his Saff to show me how well his suspension setup works on the Norfolk bends.... :blink: I am hoping to get the Saff to Fordfair, i just got an issue with no indicators holding me up from getting an MOT :angry: If i make it i will be on the Sierra owners club stand so pop over and say hi :blink:
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Offline Lemon-Ade

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Re: Had my 24v BOB Turbo mapped finally
« Reply #13 on: August 02, 2011, 22:09:51 PM »
I know mate, Im gutted . I have been banging my head against a brick wall with some engineers etc but not a million miles off now. See you up there mate I will pop over  ;D

Cheers Ade

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Offline turboshed

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Re: Had my 24v BOB Turbo mapped finally
« Reply #14 on: August 02, 2011, 22:25:04 PM »
very nice and good to see a blown b.o.b,thats not bad for 10psi,can you post a pic of your dyno graph.
Dont get me wrong I am not knocking the set-up but is it just me or does anyone else think the turbo is a little close to the inner wing,you might want to sheild that.
xr4x4 twin dinky turbo, emerald k3 management,302bhp and 400ftlbs@21 psi

Offline v6gerry

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Re: Had my 24v BOB Turbo mapped finally
« Reply #15 on: August 02, 2011, 22:34:53 PM »
Hi i remember this from a while back , very good job you done there , that is really good figures form a std bob you must have bigger injectors ? , what clutch are you useing , i have a std boa single turbo had problem with boost but now sorted , but std cossy escort clutch wont hold the power on full boost .
v6gerry

Alright Gerry..... Im using some 440cc side feeds from an Impreza, they good for the spec i have. Im on a 4 paddle AP centre plate with the standard cos 4x4 clutch, holds the power no problem but its not user friendly...... i get a tiny bit of judder when slowing down through the box as well as the pulling away but im learning how to manage it ;)
Hi that all sounds great mate , i see your not far from me i'm in ashford , may be we could meet at some point , was taking car to f/f but found a problem which i can't get done in time ,
gerry

Offline revhead

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Re: Had my 24v BOB Turbo mapped finally
« Reply #16 on: August 03, 2011, 09:35:16 AM »
Will the 24v definetly not take a bar of boost on standard compression? I notice you have a nice big a/r exhaust housing. I've been pondering the 24v swap for a while as i'm on 304/320lbs ft at 14psi from my very worked 3.0 12v cologne with a holset turbo and was hoping to achieve 400 just by throwing in a BOA on standard comp. Thereby having a simple cheap setup. But it looks like I would have to rebuild my 24v with my 12v venolia pistons and rods? Perhaps better to push 28psi with my built 12v?

Offline cossiemk2

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Re: Had my 24v BOB Turbo mapped finally
« Reply #17 on: August 03, 2011, 11:48:21 AM »
1 Bar is the top limit with the standard pistons I think.

Although my pistons were fine, but it blew the rings.(probably getting too hot.)

With a RS500 style intercooler it should cope if mapped properly, but I wouldn't push it further.

Offline tabetha

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Re: Had my 24v BOB Turbo mapped finally
« Reply #18 on: August 10, 2011, 20:32:16 PM »
Thanks Ade, was a shame you didnt get yours up to Dave when i was there..... Would have loved to seen it ;) I was talking to ya mate that took ya spot, he seemed a nice fella, even took me out in his Saff to show me how well his suspension setup works on the Norfolk bends.... :blink: I am hoping to get the Saff to Fordfair, i just got an issue with no indicators holding me up from getting an MOT :angry: If i make it i will be on the Sierra owners club stand so pop over and say hi :blink:
[/quote]
That's no problem at all matey, glad to help, much better trying the "coilys" for yourself to see how they are, I'm soon swapping to 225 or 250lb" rears though as felt a tad soft at 200lb".
Glad you're happy with DW, well worth the trip for a good job, with no pub figures!!
Mine made around 315bhp, 320lbft on 21 psi, but max torque was at 4150rpm, which surprised the hell outta me for a 4 pot yb lump, would have wound up to around 32-34 psi but run out of pre load, so need to thread the rod down more, I upped the CR from the std yb though mines around 8.3:1, the lightened flywheel is worth it's weight in gold though!!
tabetha
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Offline turboshed

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Re: Had my 24v BOB Turbo mapped finally
« Reply #19 on: August 30, 2011, 19:05:10 PM »
tabetha seeing as you are a frequent visitor to emerald do you know if the k3/k6 traction control software has been finished yet? i'm trying to sort out the tc for mine and ade's car.
o and you seem to be very missed over on passionford,I think they all are clubbing together to get you re-instated.
xr4x4 twin dinky turbo, emerald k3 management,302bhp and 400ftlbs@21 psi

Offline Damocos

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Re: Had my 24v BOB Turbo mapped finally
« Reply #20 on: September 11, 2011, 07:28:54 AM »
very nice and good to see a blown b.o.b,thats not bad for 10psi,can you post a pic of your dyno graph.
Dont get me wrong I am not knocking the set-up but is it just me or does anyone else think the turbo is a little close to the inner wing,you might want to sheild that.

Here ya go....... As time goes on this will hopefully change as i try different stuff and find whats best and whats not  ;D



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Offline robrs2

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Re: Had my 24v BOB Turbo mapped finally
« Reply #21 on: September 11, 2011, 23:24:52 PM »
Thats a big hill  ;D

Did you find out why the torque drops like it does?

Offline Dave

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Re: Had my 24v BOB Turbo mapped finally
« Reply #22 on: September 12, 2011, 09:59:10 AM »
Sorry to say you can see by the graph that turbo does not suit the engine.

The turbine end flows too much so it spools late & the compressor end flows too little hence the nose diving torque plot!

It will be off the effiency maps.
Dave

Offline v6gerry

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Re: Had my 24v BOB Turbo mapped finally
« Reply #23 on: September 12, 2011, 22:10:05 PM »
HI thought i would put R/R print out when dave done mine , std boa engine single t3 turbo 320 delphi injectors, as you can see i was losing boost , it turned out to be just needed a bleed valve , now sorted running 8psi and holding 5psi right up the rev band , need to get it back on R/R to see what its producing now  ;D

Offline Dave

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Re: Had my 24v BOB Turbo mapped finally
« Reply #24 on: September 13, 2011, 00:34:30 AM »
I would say looking at your graph v6gerry your turbine end is way too small.

What is happening is your getting alot of back pressure by 3.5K which is forcing your wastegate open causing your boost to drop & the back pressure is killing your power.

When you fit the bleed valve your reducing the pressure on the wastegate spring which means it can cope a bit better with the back pressure from the exhaust so you run a few more psi of boost!
Dave

Offline robrs2

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Re: Had my 24v BOB Turbo mapped finally
« Reply #25 on: September 13, 2011, 01:01:57 AM »
Looks like the T3 is a sensible option for single turbo.

Offline v6gerry

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Re: Had my 24v BOB Turbo mapped finally
« Reply #26 on: September 13, 2011, 07:58:48 AM »
Hi Dave since fitting the bleed valve and having it re-mapped live the power is up so much the std cossy escort clutch slips badly , so when i've done the clutch i'll get it back on a R/R to see what we have . when i fitted the valve on the first run we hit 1.8 bar so adjusted it back , then field motorsport remapped it . it really picks up and go's untill the power comes in then clutch slip , i think its a good match for this set up . will post up when i've R/R it .
Cheers Gerry

Offline Dave

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Re: Had my 24v BOB Turbo mapped finally
« Reply #27 on: September 14, 2011, 00:23:25 AM »
If your happy that is all that matters :mellow:

Is this a T3 from a Cossie or something cause that should set off alarm bells as it's 2 litre.

The same turbine shaft spec was used on engines from 1.4L to 2.5L.

Never fitted to anything bigger than a 2.5L.
Of course the turbine housing matter's too but if a Cossie then it's the smaller of what's around.

The turbine side of the turbo is too small for a 2.9 engine as it will flow more exhaust than the turbo can flow at anything over a few psi!

When does it actually hit it's set boost as it's already there when the graph starts at 2.5K!

Dave

Offline v6gerry

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Re: Had my 24v BOB Turbo mapped finally
« Reply #28 on: September 14, 2011, 18:36:29 PM »
Hi Dave yes its a 4x4 cossy turbo , i went for this because it was the same turbo as the 2.8i tt set up i had on my old engine , i won't know about when it reaches boost untill i get the clutch done and back on the R/R . i,m not that gend up on turbo sizes , you seem to know a lot about them is it your trade as a job ? like your input tho dave , what turbo would you use just out of interest.

Cherrs Gerry

Offline Dave

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Re: Had my 24v BOB Turbo mapped finally
« Reply #29 on: September 14, 2011, 23:06:44 PM »
I have done alot of research & have alot of experience with turbo cars.

Firstly I would get a China GT30 copy & get it VSR balanced.

A good intercooler & pipe work will give you a turbo that's happy at 300 - 500 bhp for about £300.

China turbo's are still a risk but one I am willing to take.

They get better each year & are nothing like the horror stories of old.

A 24V is gonna be making at least 20% more power on the same boost as a 12V mate, TT used to max out their turbo's for the installs to make them responsive.
So a STD T3 is already maxed out on a 2.8.

TT built a few 24V turbo's they used T3's but they used two of them!
Dave