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Author Topic: First time starting and running/breaking/bedding in.  (Read 2688 times)

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Janspeedcapri

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First time starting and running/breaking/bedding in.
« on: August 24, 2010, 00:27:16 AM »
I'm waiting to hear what Mike says to do but in the meantime I'd be interested to know what people have done with newly built engines and how they found it affected the engines performance and reliability - basicly what did you do and did it do any good   ...tales of woe, things going bang and seizing are most welcome



Offline capri v8 driver

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First time starting and running/breaking/bedding in.
« Reply #1 on: August 24, 2010, 19:07:29 PM »
i always pre oil the engine, check the ignition and fuel system and start the engine and let it run for 20 to 30 minutes (depending on the engine, with flat tapped lifters, i raise the rpm to 2000) keep a good eye on everything like fuel, oil and water leaks and temp of the water. after i let the engine cool down. i chance the oil and filter. after 100 miles, i chance the oil and filter again. i also cut the oil filter open to see if there are any metal particles in the filter that can point at trouble.

for the first +/- 1000 miles i go "easy" on the engine, but try to keep the engine under load and avoid high rev's and high ways.
greetz Paul.

Capri V8 Driver.

Offline mk2 cossie

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First time starting and running/breaking/bedding in.
« Reply #2 on: August 24, 2010, 20:50:09 PM »
always been told no more than 3/4 of max engine rpm, and if possible not too much load on the engine for 1000miles. then oil and filter change and away ya go  

done over 20000miles with the 24v i rebuilt that way (with a little help and in a less than ideal workshop)

Offline Mikey J

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First time starting and running/breaking/bedding in.
« Reply #3 on: August 24, 2010, 21:53:30 PM »
Read here Nick if you want some info.

http://www.mototuneusa.com/break_in_secrets.htm]http://www.mototuneusa.com/break_in_secrets.htm

As already said make sure the fluids are correct and check for other issues while you do it. It's best to have a several people on hand. Also drive locally until you build up some confidence and clock up some miles.

Super 12v

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First time starting and running/breaking/bedding in.
« Reply #4 on: August 25, 2010, 05:20:17 AM »
As Paul say's keeping an eye on levels, and usually check thing's like inlet manifold bolt torque after run in checking plugs and adjusting gap and reset all the valve clearances. Once on the road and ignition and fuelling requirements are in the ball park I'd happily give short full throttle bursts but I think you also have to be confident you won't melt anything either, undoing your good work  ideally you should have a working engine map as soon as possible, it's very easy to be tempted to run a rich setup on a new map, personally I think this bad idea and if possible try and run as close to stoich as poss and.


In a nutshell as soon as I'm happy with the car it's full chat  just don't do any long duration full boost runs until the engine map is fully sorted.

Offline Dave

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First time starting and running/breaking/bedding in.
« Reply #5 on: August 25, 2010, 09:15:48 AM »
It actually depends what has been done to the engine & actually what engine it is.

A bit of common sense really.

For a engine like the one I have just built which is a 12V turbo I did.

New pistons, modded oil ways, new cam kit & full rebuild with custom parts:

1. Used running in oil for first 1K then changed to correct oil & new filter.
This is a very thick oil that also promotes bedding in & creates a polished surface on all moving parts.

2. Before first start prime oil pump, remove oil cooler return at filter & pump 1L of oil through system to ensure it's clean.

3. Reconnect oil line & disconect turbo feeds. Then pump another 1/2L of oil out of each turbo feed to ensure it's clean.

4. Reconnect turbo feeds & pump oil around engine for abit. (I had 4 bar showing on the oil gauge for 30 secs or so).

5. Last check around engine for connections levels & any spanners etc lying about including enough fuel for 1 hours running.

6. Prime fuel system for fast start.

7. Get a helper to start engine with instructions to keep it at 2000rpm until told to stop.

8. Start-up & take to 2000rpm at once & hold there. This is to ensure good oil pressure to bed the cam in.

9. As engine runs constantly check around it checking the coolant as there will be air locks to sort.
Also set timming with a strobe as you should know the figure for it at 2000rpm.

10. After 30 mins @ 2000rpm let the engine tickover.

11. Now start setting the engine up, rechecking levels, it can now be stopped & restarted if needed.

12. Run in for about 1K, at first keep to half revs max then as the miles increase so does the rev limit.
If you have the option you would be mapping the car now with the help of a friend as you run it in.

13. Re-torque heads, adjust tappets & check over engine. Change the running in oil for proper stuff,
Now your ready for a dyno run to see what's what & final mapping.


14. Enjoy
« Last Edit: August 25, 2010, 09:20:52 AM by Dave »
Dave

Janspeedcapri

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First time starting and running/breaking/bedding in.
« Reply #6 on: August 26, 2010, 19:21:28 PM »
Thanks all  

edit - just looked at your link Mike. I saw that a while ago and thought it was plausible. If you reckon it makes good sense I'll get Dave Walker to do it on the rollers as motoman describes. I guess you would check your tighnesses and stuff in between the runs during 15min cooldowns... I can check the electric and fuel plumbing and I can check the coolant system without running the engine with water from the kettle since I have an electric waterpump but I'd have to make double sure the oil cooler connections and sump are sealed properly.

Dave, this guy reckons that by running it soft for 30 mins would basicly screw the engine so the rings will never seal properly - can this be true in your opinion?
« Last Edit: August 26, 2010, 19:50:41 PM by Janspeedcapri »

Offline capri v8 driver

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First time starting and running/breaking/bedding in.
« Reply #7 on: August 26, 2010, 21:44:55 PM »
Quote from: Janspeedcapri
Thanks all  

edit - just looked at your link Mike. I saw that a while ago and thought it was plausible. If you reckon it makes good sense I'll get Dave Walker to do it on the rollers as motoman describes. I guess you would check your tighnesses and stuff in between the runs during 15min cooldowns... I can check the electric and fuel plumbing and I can check the coolant system without running the engine with water from the kettle since I have an electric waterpump but I'd have to make double sure the oil cooler connections and sump are sealed properly.

Dave, this guy reckons that by running it soft for 30 mins would basicly screw the engine so the rings will never seal properly - can this be true in your opinion?

so many people, so many opions.

piston rings seats in minutes, depending on the hone finish, not in hours. and as the engine is running, there is already load on the piston rings.

yes, a dyno is a more controlled enviroment and you can put more load the engine. i already mentiond putting load on the engine when you drive.

1000000e off engines bin installed after a rebuild, and started up and run for a while before they even drove a mile. and most are still running today. as for the lose off hp lose by not putting load on the engine, in the first minutes, i never seen that claim. maybe if your looking for piek hp on a 1000 hp engine, maybe its matters. but losing 1 % off the hp on a boa or any other street engine is not noticable.
greetz Paul.

Capri V8 Driver.

Offline Dave

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First time starting and running/breaking/bedding in.
« Reply #8 on: August 27, 2010, 11:05:14 AM »
Quote
Dave, this guy reckons that by running it soft for 30 mins would basicly screw the engine so the rings will never seal properly - can this be true in your opinion? ]

Well letting it tick over is the worst thing you can do when it's first started for any engine.

Dave Walker will probably have another idea on the right way  

You will get many different versions of what is the right way to break a engine.

That's because different engines require different methods!

When I use to build bike engines I use to pre oil them then take them up to the rev limit on first start up then take them for a 20 mile fast spin.

Change the oil & that was it, it was run in!

New engines are simply better made & use closer tolerances so need to be run in different.

I have a Yammy 2009 YZ 450 new race barrel & piston kit here.
It actually says that no running in required!

My thoughts are:

As a rule go to extreme's to make sure oil is as free as possible of dirt etc on first start. A must with turbo's.

Pre oil or prime the engine. Again a must with turbo's.

Keep the revs up to ensure engine has good oil pressure for first 30 minutes.

Ensure everything looks good before you drive it.

Drive it as soon as as you can.



As I say use your common sense.

If the engine has had fuel mods & you don't know if it fuels O.K don't pull hard loads.
You must check over a runing engine before driving, so many stories on the net about people setting fire to their new engines  


The break in is very important.
As said keep revs up to ensure good oil pressure.

If not the new cam will wear very fast & groove. This will shorten it's life by alot.
Plus you risk the new shells picking up & either spinning or grooving.

You ruff up the bore before fitting new pistons.
It takes time for oil to coat the bores & within the first 30 mins or so they should be pretty much bedded in.


Mineral oil or proper running in oil helps to wear stuff in & creates a nice surface.

But with all this wear you need to change the oil before you reach 1K.

Once you have the proper oil in it you can drive it as hard as you want.
« Last Edit: August 27, 2010, 11:19:11 AM by Dave »
Dave

 

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