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Author Topic: 0-60 time estimates  (Read 4307 times)

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Offline CortinaPhil

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0-60 time estimates
« on: August 04, 2008, 23:59:35 PM »
As I've mentioned in other posts, I'm currently trying to build a 24v Mk3 Cortina.

I've been told that, despite its size, the Mk3 is a pretty light car (coz it doesn't have all the luxuries of a modern car I guess   ).  I'm going one further and removing all interior apart from the seats, all insulation and eventually replacing the side and rear glass with polycarb/plexiglass/whatever it's called!

The engine will be a standard BOA with EGR and any other unnecessary bits removed, the gearbox a Type 9 and the diff a 3.44:1 H/D unit.  The twin exhaust will be as big as the 24v likes (I've read that they like a bit of back pressure).  The wheels will be as wide as can fit without any arches or tubbing.

So my question is: what do you reckon the 0-60 time would be based on the above and MOB's time of 6.71s?
I was orignally hoping for sub 6 seconds but now that seems a bit optimistic  

(At the rate the build is going, my 0-60 time is going to be somewhere between 3 and 4 years!   )
« Last Edit: August 05, 2008, 00:00:31 AM by CortinaPhil »



Offline Tony

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0-60 time estimates
« Reply #1 on: August 05, 2008, 00:09:05 AM »
phil
correct about back pressure, my big bore pipe was blanked off and 3 22mm holes drilled in it,(i can hear the radio now  ) done for the show to get every bit of power i could get,,,,its running warmer, better mpg and more power lower down....

i think my auto is quicker than manual or very close to it...remember the other sierra's run around 7 to 8 secs,, not all down to manual tho

i should think if ya car is as stripped as ya can get it 7+ secs
dont be dwon about it, youl have a reason to fit a blower

tony

the 24v xr4i auto-0 to 60 in 6.71 secs

Offline Dave

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0-60 time estimates
« Reply #2 on: August 05, 2008, 00:11:44 AM »

Firstly mate your type 9 if V6 spec is not suited to the 3.44 diff for sprints.
Second your type 9 is not gonna last long anyway behind the 24V espically sprinting.

Third get a V6 MT75 & with your diff it will be perfect.

What do you reckon your total weight is gonna be & I can work out what your 0-60 will be.
Dave

Offline CortinaPhil

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0-60 time estimates
« Reply #3 on: August 05, 2008, 00:42:08 AM »
MOB:
 I'd been told that autos are the way forward for sprints but for every day driving (and this will be my everyday car   ), I'd rather have a manual for that little bit more control over the car.

7+ seconds isn't the answer I was hoping for but I guess that, in a car that's pushing 40 years old and that was put together by a muppet, it's quick enough  

Dave:
 It is the V6 spec Type 9.  With regards to the gearbox/diff combo, again, it's a balance between sprint car and daily driver... I'd like to be able to cruise on the motorway at low(ish) revs as well as hold my own at the traffic lights grand prix!  I'd like an MT75 but my budget is stretched to the limit already.

A standard Mk3 weighs about 1050kg but I have removed a lot of weight.  It's amazing how much insulation, carpet and glass weighs!  So call it...err... 900kg?


Thanks for the replies guys!





Offline Dave

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0-60 time estimates
« Reply #4 on: August 05, 2008, 01:01:03 AM »
Well if you get it less than 1000kg a sub 6 sec 0-60 is possible.

Remember Tone is about 1200kg.

Weight is a big factor.

How ever the gearing is a factor too.

The V6 MT75 with your diff is the perfect all round choice with say 205 50 15 tyres.

The type 9 with that rear diff ratio will bog the 24V down a bit on a sprint but to be honest with 1000kg or less it won't be much.

Both gearbox's will cruise at the same revs in 4th & top.
« Last Edit: August 05, 2008, 01:04:47 AM by Dave »
Dave

bortaf

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0-60 time estimates
« Reply #5 on: August 05, 2008, 02:43:34 AM »
Your real problem will be traction unfortunatly, the cortina rear end is a bit halfassed as far as location goes, the sierra is far far superior in that respect and IMHO you will never get near a sierra on 0 to 60 unless you sort the rear end out, a decent 4 link setup would get some squat in there and make it stick better  
The quickest 24v cortinas i've seen use the sierra rear end even though the squat on an IRS promotes neg camber and less tyre on the road, it's still better than standard cortina  

These are the times for a Mk3 running a sierra IRS timed at brunters on a classic ford day using whatever timming equipment they use  

top speed 129.1 mph
0-60 7.03 secs
0-100 15.37 secs

If i can find the CF mag with the report in it i'll put up the times for the 24V with the standard rear end  
« Last Edit: August 05, 2008, 02:45:07 AM by bortaf »

Offline Dave

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0-60 time estimates
« Reply #6 on: August 05, 2008, 08:52:31 AM »

Yeah agreed but I did allow for it.

Basically if you get anywhere near 900kg you will have a power to weight ratio the same as my Minker with your STD 24V engine.

I can go sub 4.5 fairly easy.

But I have 4wd & as Bortaf says a rear that is good for sprints to.

You won't get near my times but a good set-up, the right gearing & sticky tyres should mean your only a second behind or so.

There is always that run that it grips & you get a fast time. Do enough & it will come but the type 9 won't like it  

Good Luck.
Dave

Offline CortinaPhil

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« Reply #7 on: August 05, 2008, 10:40:16 AM »
Thanks for all the replies!

I haven't even thought about the rear suspension yet but, as that will be one of the last things I do, will probably just do whatever is cheapest/easiest/quickest!  If this means lots of tyre smoke when I floor it rather than a quick getaway, I guess that's not the end of the world  

Although the 0-60 time won't be sooooo great, I'm guessing that the 30-70mph time (when joining a motorway) should be pretty impressive as traction wouldn't be as much of an issue.

Thanks again  

Offline Tony

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0-60 time estimates
« Reply #8 on: August 05, 2008, 15:20:48 PM »
phil

there was loads of maths involved in my conversion, i did simply stick an auto in and use that, i worked out the torque converter was wrong for sprints, what would be ideal is one that locks up at 3000rpm but this would leave me 2 probs,

1, it would spin the wheels far to easy and getting off the line would be a nightmare

2 every day driving would mean putting up with the engine revving to 3k before ya pull away..
my solution was to look at other auto fords with the same transmision, with the sierra/granada torque converters locking up at 2100rpm.
what i found was the 4.0 explorer used the same box and doesn have a better stall speed at 2700rpm.
i bought 2 and fitted one, this i have now found to be ideal, it launches hard but not so hard it spins wheels.
it can be driven almost the same as standard cars do to


as for type 9 box's,, make sure you have an xr4x4 type 9, take off the transfere box,, its said to have stronger front bearings,

tony

the 24v xr4i auto-0 to 60 in 6.71 secs

Offline mouldytbags

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0-60 time estimates
« Reply #9 on: August 05, 2008, 17:28:14 PM »
i was hoping for 6.5+ on the day   how wrong was i

Offline Tony

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« Reply #10 on: August 05, 2008, 17:33:17 PM »
john start to get ya gear changes smooth and youl get better times, think  you should get near my times then,,
tone

the 24v xr4i auto-0 to 60 in 6.71 secs

Offline mouldytbags

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« Reply #11 on: August 05, 2008, 17:38:07 PM »
true mate.its not the driving im use to tho   first time ive driven the car that hard really.dont think the
police would be to happy me practicing it off the lights  whats that timer you have called ?

Offline Tony

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« Reply #12 on: August 05, 2008, 17:42:12 PM »
g teck   this link is for the newer version on e bay, look around and youl get them below 100quid
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Gtech-Pro-SS-Performance-Meter-shiftlight-g-tech_W0QQitemZ140253324693QQcmdZViewItem?_trksid=p3286.m20.l1116]http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Gtech-Pro-SS-Perform...p3286.m20.l1116

 it does give a good guide to ya driving styles and mods to

tony
« Last Edit: August 05, 2008, 17:47:30 PM by maddoldbugger »

the 24v xr4i auto-0 to 60 in 6.71 secs

popuptoaster

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0-60 time estimates
« Reply #13 on: August 06, 2008, 00:32:38 AM »
I stayed with a 220bhp rover 220 turbo off the line up to 80mph a while back and he reckons his car will do 0-60mph in 6.6 secs, i suffer from serious traction problems in my car (just ask taps!) with me 13" rims and crappy pirelli p6 tyres.

Given enough grip i think you could get into the low 6's as mines not stripped out, it has central locking and electric windows, reacros in the back which must be heavier than a standard rear seat, as well as my tool bag in the boot AND my bird was in the car that day.


Just to say though mine is running a1600 axle at the mo so its pretty low geared, it hits the red line at just over 130mph according to my satnav
« Last Edit: August 06, 2008, 00:39:52 AM by popuptoaster »

Janspeedcapri

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0-60 time estimates
« Reply #14 on: August 06, 2008, 19:54:41 PM »
I agree with dave an all but heres the CHEAP way - You need an LSD axle for launching - harvest one from a Capri 2.8 special (don't tell me tho - I'll get upset)
If moneys tight - buy the whole car and ebay the rest in bits to get your money back...sob sob
If money isn't so tight - get a quaif ATB for a bout £500 - fit and forget as they are geared - no friction plates to ruin so could be cheaper longterm.

you can fit poly bushes to tighten the rear end and you can play with different profile tyres/size rims on the back to get the ratio right for launching on trackdays and have another tidy looking, easy driving set for the road.
Another thing is to fit a lighter flywheel...will ruin fuel economy but hey  just my 2p worth

Offline CortinaPhil

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« Reply #15 on: August 06, 2008, 21:13:40 PM »
Some good advice from everyone... ta!

I think, like popuptoaster, I'm going to stick with the current 1600 rear end for now as it means that I can get the car back on the road quicker and more cheaply and that the acceleration should be brisker.

Once the car's up and running, I can work on the old 3:44 H/D unit... get it cleaned up and painted, fit a Capri LSD (I think they fit straight in   ) and sort out decent brakes/suspension.  Hopefully sort out an MT75 gearbox too  

To stop the car, I've just acquired some grooved/vented Capri 2.8i disks and modified calipers... I think that they and the std drums at the back should be sufficient for the time being.  Please someone let me know if I'm wrong!!

Cheers all


bortaf

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0-60 time estimates
« Reply #16 on: August 06, 2008, 23:52:49 PM »
Quote from: CortinaPhil
Some good advice from everyone... ta!

I think, like popuptoaster, I'm going to stick with the current 1600 rear end for now as it means that I can get the car back on the road quicker and more cheaply and that the acceleration should be brisker.

Once the car's up and running, I can work on the old 3:44 H/D unit... get it cleaned up and painted, fit a Capri LSD (I think they fit straight in   ) and sort out decent brakes/suspension.  Hopefully sort out an MT75 gearbox too  

To stop the car, I've just acquired some grooved/vented Capri 2.8i disks and modified calipers... I think that they and the std drums at the back should be sufficient for the time being.  Please someone let me know if I'm wrong!!

Cheers all

The rears do ni-on bugger all anyway but i would go to the 9 inch as soon as you can which if your launching hard wont be long cos the L/D diff wont last  
You "may" find the rears lock with the V6 in the front and 9 inch rears (ford fitted a limiting valve to the rear to stop this), it's all to with weight transfer and a V6 has loads already at the front which makes the rear very light under hard braking (back in the day superspeed and RaceProved both changed the 9 inch slave cylinders to the smaller 8 inch slaves to lower the pressure at the rear to combat the same problem with their V6 essex conversions).

On the fronts try and get some Mk2 granada 2.8i calipers, bolt straight on with the capri V dics, use the same size piston as standard but give you a bigger pad  

TBH poly bushes do not help traction an a cortina, you need to get the arse down when pulling away to push the tyres into the tarmac and poly bushes limit the axle travel and actually prevent this, it's a side effect of that half arsed attempt at rear location ford UK gave us, the down side is with rubber you'll be changing the tops voids at least once a year (MOT time) and the bottoms as well if you leave the tops when they go, solid estate/H/D top and bottom voids (so actually they are not voids cos they dont have any voids being solid) will help but even Me 2.3 needs a new set of tops after 2 years and that aint no powerfull 24V.

TBH just do whatever suits you but if you are really chacing low times the rear needs addressing, the SA cortina rear set up or a Hyundai stellar set up make a whole world of differance   and are both 5 link but in a slightly different way  

Anorac off  

Offline CortinaPhil

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0-60 time estimates
« Reply #17 on: August 07, 2008, 00:13:39 AM »
Quote from: bortaf
The rears do ni-on bugger all anyway but i would go to the 9 inch as soon as you can which if your launching hard wont be long cos the L/D diff wont last  
You "may" find the rears lock with the V6 in the front and 9 inch rears (ford fitted a limiting valve to the rear to stop this), it's all to with weight transfer and a V6 has loads already at the front which makes the rear very light under hard braking (back in the day superspeed and RaceProved both changed the 9 inch slave cylinders to the smaller 8 inch slaves to lower the pressure at the rear to combat the same problem with their V6 essex conversions).

On the fronts try and get some Mk2 granada 2.8i calipers, bolt straight on with the capri V dics, use the same size piston as standard but give you a bigger pad  

TBH poly bushes do not help traction an a cortina, you need to get the arse down when pulling away to push the tyres into the tarmac and poly bushes limit the axle travel and actually prevent this, it's a side effect of that half arsed attempt at rear location ford UK gave us, the down side is with rubber you'll be changing the tops voids at least once a year (MOT time) and the bottoms as well if you leave the tops when they go, solid estate/H/D top and bottom voids (so actually they are not voids cos they dont have any voids being solid) will help but even Me 2.3 needs a new set of tops after 2 years and that aint no powerfull 24V.

TBH just do whatever suits you but if you are really chacing low times the rear needs addressing, the SA cortina rear set up or a Hyundai stellar set up make a whole world of differance   and are both 5 link but in a slightly different way  

Anorac off  

I did wonder about the rear end being too light under braking.  I plan to have the battery in the boot and a Mk1 Capri fuel tank feeding a swirl pot (just reading up on it now!) in there too, so I guess there'll be a little bit of weight over the back wheel. But with the standard Mk3 drums, I'm hoping it shouldn't be a problem.

I can't remember exactly what calipers I've got now  but they're good'uns and I'm assured they will fit the new disks.

The quickest car I've ever had was a Peugeot 205 gti with a 1.9 16v engine from an Mi16 (approx 165bhp).  That supposedly did 0-60 in around 6.5 seconds.  My goal is to have a Cortina that's quicker than that... which is why I asked the 0-60 question.  It's looking like it could happen!  

 

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