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Author Topic: Legal things.... supercharger out the bonnet...  (Read 12729 times)

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seany

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Legal things.... supercharger out the bonnet...
« on: July 05, 2008, 21:37:48 PM »
as some of you know im staring my supercharged 24v project....

now as its a 24v cossie in a capri theres not much room in the engine bay for a supercharger, so its going on top of the engine sticking out the bonnet....

im only in the starting stages of making some wooden templates up to mount it, its going to be mounted on a plate on top of the standard plenum...so as you can imagine the whole supercharger sticks out the bonnet....

ive sat in the drivers seat and in my opinion its fine (looks cool!!    )

BUT heres the question....is this legal

i only ask as ive 2 people come up to me today and ask is it legal...

now ive just checked the MOT manual and theres NO reason for a fail at all...


but is it legal....obviously the supercharger DOES obstruct your view of the road, buin my opinion it is not dangerous at all...

its like old landrovers with the spare wheel on the bonnet, it dosent obstruct my view any more than that...

it may come down to asking the police direct before i go ahead and mount it, as ive looked on some forums and its the usual  'yes mate' or 'no mate' answers

anyone know the answer from a legal stand point or where i should look....cheers..sean



IansSaph

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Legal things.... supercharger out the bonnet...
« Reply #1 on: July 05, 2008, 22:01:26 PM »
you have to have the moving mechanism covered.

in an accident i'd rather bounce off a landrover spare wheel than hit your top pulley doing 6250rpm

Please check with your local MOT tester then the old bill but in my opinion the moving parts need shielding,

also getting a pigeon stuck in the belt would make a hell of a mess.

Ian

seany

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Legal things.... supercharger out the bonnet...
« Reply #2 on: July 06, 2008, 10:55:48 AM »
thanks for your help, how do you know you need the moving parts covered??..

this is not a dig at you personally but ive asked this question on several forums and some same different things, one guy even said you are not allowed superchargers on cars after 1972...this is very specific but its no good if i get stopped one day and i tell the fuzz some guy on a forum said its ok....

i really need a way of finding out properly....anyone know any coppers on here...??..

ive seen loads of cars at shows with superchargers out the bonnet, but it would be my luck im the one getting pulled for it!!...cheers for all your help...

popuptoaster

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Legal things.... supercharger out the bonnet...
« Reply #3 on: July 06, 2008, 11:12:53 AM »
There is no specific law against superchargers sticking out the bonnet, but you do have to have rotating/hot parts covered.

just do it and if you get pulled over you'll only get a defect notice, just fit a big scoop to a bonnet to cover it up if that happens, but i'll bet you'll be fine.

Janspeedcapri

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Legal things.... supercharger out the bonnet...
« Reply #4 on: July 06, 2008, 11:31:03 AM »
Ians advice  concerning moving/hot parts rings true to me - its good common sense to keep hazardous bits covered... but as he suggests -  confirm with an MOT tester.
Quoting the name of an MOT tester who gave you the green light should exonerate you of any wrong doing;)
« Last Edit: July 06, 2008, 11:31:49 AM by Janspeedcapri »

popuptoaster

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Legal things.... supercharger out the bonnet...
« Reply #5 on: July 06, 2008, 11:43:02 AM »
Quote from: Janspeedcapri
Ians advice  concerning moving/hot parts rings true to me - its good common sense to keep hazardous bits covered... but as he suggests -  confirm with an MOT tester.
Quoting the name of an MOT tester who gave you the green light should exonerate you of any wrong doing;)


It wont happen, no MOT tester is gonna put his name to something thats stuck in a grey area of the law like this.


There are loads of cars running with no bonnets or chargers sticking out the bonnet or bull bars on em etc etc.

Just build the thing, it'll be fine worst thing that can happen is you'll have to build a bonnet with a big scoop on it, im gonna do it myself if i suddenly find myself with some disposable income. lol

Janspeedcapri

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Legal things.... supercharger out the bonnet...
« Reply #6 on: July 06, 2008, 11:59:57 AM »
Grey area?  its either legal or not, possibly depending on the installation. If i took a motor with a supercharger through the bonnet for an MOT, he will either pass it, or not.
My tester (who owns a mk2 tina  ) was more than happy to advise me on my lack of bumpers, GRP panels and plexiglass   all of which he declared fine and dandy.


edit after further thought...."thefatcapri" runs a blower through the bonnet and has been on the roads for years so its legal. his pulley is covered so i bet that is a requirement.

worth a look any road if you haven't seen it....

http://www.thefatcapri.co.uk/]http://www.thefatcapri.co.uk/
« Last Edit: July 06, 2008, 12:44:23 PM by Janspeedcapri »

popuptoaster

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Legal things.... supercharger out the bonnet...
« Reply #7 on: July 06, 2008, 12:43:07 PM »
Quote from: Janspeedcapri
Grey area?  its either legal or not, possibly depending on the installation. If i took a motor with a supercharger through the bonnet for an MOT, he will either pass it, or not.
My tester (who owns a mk2 tina  ) was more than happy to advise me on my lack of bumpers, GRP panels and plexiglass   all of which he declared fine and dandy.

yeah but you say "advise" you dont say "write name down on piece of paper and possibly get sued if pedestrian killed"


plenty of car related stuff is in a grey area of the law, take towing A frames for instance, hardly anyone is sure of how the law would class them if a court action was taken involving one as no one has tested in court if they make the car you are pulling a "trailer" or not.

your car should not be dangerous, hence you can get pulled over for having a wing hanging off, or removing your bumpers but leaving the bumper irons on it sticking out, but a bumper iron is probably no more dangerous than a supercharger sticking out the bonnet, yet as its more of a deliberate part of the car you'll find they'll get through a test like it.

Fiberglass wings can also be a grey area, they are technically not illegal, but on a capri for instance your supposed to have 12" (i think) of solid metal all round your suspension mounting points, if you remove your steel front wings (which are not structural anyway) and fit fiberglass ones that looks to me like on one side at least you have removed metal, no sane MOT tester will fail you for that but i reckon that techniacally if the law wanted to get you for something they could pick you up on it.

seany

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Legal things.... supercharger out the bonnet...
« Reply #8 on: July 06, 2008, 12:44:07 PM »
if the mot tester does it 'by the book' he cannot fail it....

in the manual the only mention of the sort of thing im on about is under the 'mascots' section...


"Mascots and other external mountings forward of the windscreen are not part of the test."


my new mascot is called "mr supercharger"


gonna email the DVLA and police to get confirmation...

will let you lot know...

Janspeedcapri

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Legal things.... supercharger out the bonnet...
« Reply #9 on: July 06, 2008, 13:14:05 PM »
Quote from: popuptoaster
yeah but you say "advise" you dont say "write name down on piece of paper and possibly get sued if pedestrian killed"


when i say advise....
I took the advice before buying the parts and making the mods - the tester who gave me the goahead confirmed he will pass the mods when i go for the test -  the signed certificate being the peice of paper giving me all the written proof i need to avoid legal action  

I don't see any grey area in the law - if no laws are in place  - its totaly legal. The system has to make the laws that either compel to, or prevent you from a given course of action - they maybe convoluted and seem contradictory but in the end its all black and white....only stuff like god or primer give rise to grey areas imo

seany

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Legal things.... supercharger out the bonnet...
« Reply #10 on: July 06, 2008, 13:29:44 PM »
well ive just fired off an email to the police, DVLA and VOSA...


""


Hello,
my name is mr harding

i need some advise on a modifition to a car i am planning
i am planning to supercharge my car
this means that the supercharger will protrude from the bonnet by about 8-10 inches
i need to know where i stand legalally with this modificaton
obviously my insurance company will be informed but is seems to be a grey area
as reguards to if it is legal or not.


MOT wise it seems that it is not a probem.
the supercharger does not restrict your view and i can clearly see the road ahead
obviouly the moving parts have to be covered to stop anyone hurting themselfs if they fell on the car
by accident.
there is nothing in the mot manual about the drivers view being obstructed by external mountings on the car itself.
the only line i can find in the mot manual is about mascots.

i quote....



"Mascots and other external mountings forward of the windscreen are not part of the test"



so im 99% sure the car will pass the MOT fine... im emailing this to the police, the DVLA and VOSA
im hoping to get a confomation of this...

so can you please let me know if this is considered a 'legal' modification.
i dont want to go ahead and modify the car, only to be pulled over, or to have the car fail an MOT

the problem i have had in finding out this information, is that most people have there own opinion
if it is legal or not...some say its fine and others say it is not....but i need hard facts
before i spend money on this modification.

it seems to be a grey area, but need to know if i would be breaking the law by mounting a supercharger
on top of the engine, protruding from the bonnet by about 8-10 inches...

many thanks, and i await your reply...


Mr Harding


""


will let you know when, and if !!   they reply




popuptoaster

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Legal things.... supercharger out the bonnet...
« Reply #11 on: July 06, 2008, 18:42:38 PM »
Quote from: Janspeedcapri
when i say advise....
I took the advice before buying the parts and making the mods - the tester who gave me the goahead confirmed he will pass the mods when i go for the test -  the signed certificate being the peice of paper giving me all the written proof i need to avoid legal action  

I don't see any grey area in the law - if no laws are in place  - its totaly legal. The system has to make the laws that either compel to, or prevent you from a given course of action - they maybe convoluted and seem contradictory but in the end its all black and white....only stuff like god or primer give rise to grey areas imo


ahh but when specific things are not covered by a law, sometimes OTHER laws can be applied to them if the need is felt by a court, There is no law that specifically says you cant eat a kit kat at the wheel, but you can still get done for driving without due care and attention, its the same law the coppers used to use before the pointless mobile phone laws came into being.

also an MOT is only proof the car is legal at the time of the test, i can get an MOT, go hoe and fit racing slicks to it and the car is no longer legal, waving the ticket at a copper and whining "well he said it was legal" wont help you.

how you gonna prove you didnt get an MOT then go straight home and fit a supercharger afterwards?

as i said i wouldnt worry about it, fit the charger and cover the pulley up and it'll be fine as it has been for hundreds of other road cars, it may not pass an SVA but it dont have to.

Janspeedcapri

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Legal things.... supercharger out the bonnet...
« Reply #12 on: July 06, 2008, 19:10:34 PM »
Quote from: popuptoaster
how you gonna prove you didnt get an MOT then go straight home and fit a supercharger afterwards?

Off the top of my head.... I could take a pic of the bonnet whilst on the testers ramps, with him smiling at it - if the court/plod can't produce a failure sheet, (with prior date to my valid certificate) detailing the illegitimate blower - I'm laffin'


BESIDES - what kind of people do you use for mots? the fella who does me has a reputation, and integrity (as i said, he drives an old Ford) - if he passed it, he would testify to that ican asure you.
« Last Edit: July 06, 2008, 19:15:48 PM by Janspeedcapri »

sebspeed

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Legal things.... supercharger out the bonnet...
« Reply #13 on: July 06, 2008, 21:43:24 PM »
I DRIVE MY CORTINA LIKE THIS WITH BELT COVERED
« Last Edit: July 06, 2008, 21:51:29 PM by sebspeed »

seany

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Legal things.... supercharger out the bonnet...
« Reply #14 on: July 06, 2008, 22:45:20 PM »
thats EXACTLY like mine will be....but mine will be lower as i dont have carbs on top...

have you ever had problems with the fuzz / MOT

Janspeedcapri

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Legal things.... supercharger out the bonnet...
« Reply #15 on: July 06, 2008, 22:51:53 PM »
Quote from: seany
have you ever had problems with the fuzz

That reminds me of a very old joke about 2 prossies  

IansSaph

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Legal things.... supercharger out the bonnet...
« Reply #16 on: July 07, 2008, 09:59:54 AM »
All i said was;-

Quote
you have to have the moving mechanism covered.

not only for a safety but for common sence mate.
Do what you want like just don't expect every copper or tester to leave you alone cause of a bit of paper with 1 persons opinion on it.
Personally if i wanted it stuck out of my bonnet i'd do it and deal with the concequences of being pulled all the time. If your don't want the hassel then don't
BUT...
Quote
you have to have the moving mechanism covered.
Ian  

Janspeedcapri

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Legal things.... supercharger out the bonnet...
« Reply #17 on: July 07, 2008, 13:27:02 PM »
yeah that doesn't realy cover the pulley properly....like this...I know bob has run his on the raod for ages.



Personaly, i think it looks ridiculous and seriously blocks the drivers view...but good luck.
« Last Edit: July 07, 2008, 13:32:15 PM by Janspeedcapri »

sebspeed

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Legal things.... supercharger out the bonnet...
« Reply #18 on: July 07, 2008, 19:05:17 PM »
Quote from: sebspeed
I DRIVE MY CORTINA LIKE THIS WITH BELT COVERED
NEVER HAD A PROBLEM WITH THE MOT AND B*****S TO THE OLD BILL

seany

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Legal things.... supercharger out the bonnet...
« Reply #19 on: July 07, 2008, 20:00:39 PM »
Got a reply from the police today....bit shocked that they actually bothered to reply...


Dear Mr Harding,

Thank you for your email dated the 6th of July 2008.

Having examined your query regarding adding a supercharger to your car, I can advise you that if the car passes an m.o.t then it is 'road-legal'. However, without being able to see the effect that the supercharger would have on the drivers view, it is impossible to say whether or not the drivers view would be impaired .

I should inform you that the Road Traffic Act incorporates the state of the vehicle into its definition of Dangerous Driving. Therefore, if you were to be involved in a road accident, and it was found that your view was impaired, you could be prosecuted for the offence of dangerous driving.

I hope that this has gone some way in answering your question.

Yours Sincerley,

Felicity Bracewell-Jupe

Felicity Bracewell-Jupe
RPU Specialist Support Administrator
RPU HQ -Whitchurch
Tel: 01256 406489
Int Extension 624193
felicity.bracewell-jupe@hampshire.pnn.police.uk





Offline gazfromoldham

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Legal things.... supercharger out the bonnet...
« Reply #20 on: July 07, 2008, 23:28:41 PM »
now then folks
just enquired with a friend of mine who builds hot rods.
as for the charger sticking out from the bonnet it is perfectly legal although the pulley has to be encased in a cover so its time to get the stainless steel out and fabricate one.
on another note, if the car is registered pre 72 or 73 ( not sure exactly ) it doesnt need to be covered .
any more information pm me or text me 07973904779

seany

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Legal things.... supercharger out the bonnet...
« Reply #21 on: July 08, 2008, 00:21:22 AM »
thats odd....its still a spinning mechanical device, even if its mounted in a model t....

wonder why that law exists....



Offline gazfromoldham

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Legal things.... supercharger out the bonnet...
« Reply #22 on: July 08, 2008, 23:34:50 PM »
Quote from: seany
thats odd....its still a spinning mechanical device, even if its mounted in a model t....

wonder why that law exists....


my thoughts exactly but where does the seat belt law come into effect ?
you should be able to wear one if you want to or not to. and not whether or not the car is a certain age.
and another daft thing is, cars mainly have two fog lights but only the o/s has to be working for the mot.
we should be able to make our own rules up for our own cars .

enough talk now cos i can whinge all night ( i get lessons from the wife ) !!!!!

Offline Mik

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Legal things.... supercharger out the bonnet...
« Reply #23 on: July 09, 2008, 00:24:59 AM »
The problem that the law makers have is that they can't apply laws retrospectivly except in certain exceptional circumstances. The way they will see it is that all cars will eventually fall into their remit eventually,,,,, well they would if it wasn't for people like us.
When seat belts were invented by Volvo (or some other bearded bloke), they were lambasted continuously until someone thought, "bugger, these actually work".
Its the same as all other threats, until a certain number of people are actually killed or injured by these faults, then they're ignored as to fully rectify them would cost too much money.
The only way to stay clear of the law is to minimise your chances of being pulled. Keep the pully covered, keep the charger as low as possible and stick a cushion under your backside if you're a shortarse so you can see over the charger.

Mik.

 

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