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Author Topic: TDCI focus a disapointment  (Read 5896 times)

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Offline TwinTurbo

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TDCI focus a disapointment
« on: January 14, 2008, 07:45:22 AM »
We had a new 7 mile, Focus TDCi Ghia as a Hire car the other day.

The car was nice enough but there were 3 disapointments..

1) The sony stereo was B.......x , the sound was messy ( worse than my 10 year old panasonic on crap ford speakers! ) and the tuner stage was pathetic at keeping a clean signal!!!

2) The engine was a huge disapointment, I don't understand why eveyone raves about them. at 50MPH in 4th ( car + 2 bodies ) if you dropped the throttle it would take ages to pick up. It was useless in 5th.. It was also a bit random round town, 1st gear actualy seemed far too short. Overall it seemed to lack torque and the power band was very high up. I thought these modern Deisles were supposed to be Much better. I am only comparing against my 170K Twincam sierra. But my m8 reconde it was only a bit better than their 1996 1.9td Passat estate.

3) Now 2 could have been forgiven if MPG was good. But over 550 miles clear crusing at 75mph we only managed 41MPG!

So nice car, crap radio, disapointing engine..

TT



Simon 3 door

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TDCI focus a disapointment
« Reply #1 on: January 14, 2008, 08:30:30 AM »
Quote from: TwinTurbo
We had a new 7 mile, Focus TDCi Ghia as a Hire car the other day.

The car was nice enough but there were 3 disapointments..

1) The sony stereo was B.......x , the sound was messy ( worse than my 10 year old panasonic on crap ford speakers! ) and the tuner stage was pathetic at keeping a clean signal!!!

2) The engine was a huge disapointment, I don't understand why eveyone raves about them. at 50MPH in 4th ( car + 2 bodies ) if you dropped the throttle it would take ages to pick up. It was useless in 5th.. It was also a bit random round town, 1st gear actualy seemed far too short. Overall it seemed to lack torque and the power band was very high up. I thought these modern Deisles were supposed to be Much better. I am only comparing against my 170K Twincam sierra. But my m8 reconde it was only a bit better than their 1996 1.9td Passat estate.

3) Now 2 could have been forgiven if MPG was good. But over 550 miles clear crusing at 75mph we only managed 41MPG!

So nice car, crap radio, disapointing engine..

TT

Sounds like you had either a 1.6 or 1.8 - the 2.0 is a 6 speeder. If you're not used to driving a diesel you won't get the best out of one - i.e. you don't drive on the POWER you drive on the TORQUE so no point taking them over about 4500 RPM. Also you want to be "on boost" so you're looking at around 1500 RPM to be on the flat part of the torque curve. Therefore if you drive them in the 1500 to 4500 RPM band they fly.

With a diesel you don't "drop the throttle" - all you will do is give a huge "demand" which the ECU has to regulate - otherwise if it didn't you'd dump loads of fuel in, get a poor mixture, loads of smoke etc. Also if you're driving like a fanny in low gears, you're liable to bring in the "torque truncation" program within the ECU - this is there to limit / prevent damage to driveline components - the sheer torque that a diesel engine produces can rip a gearbox to shreds.

I've driven diesels since I was 9 years old (private land obviously) and the progression between the old 2.3D Sierra my grandad had in 1983 through to the 1.8 TDCi Focus my mum got in 2003 and now into the more modern stage IV engines in Fiesta, Focus, Mondeo, S-Max and Galaxy. 2 years ado I had a Fusion 1.6 TDCi and it was a flying machine. Drove to Belgium and back (almost into Germany) in a day not hanging around and it returned 49.8 MPG. I had a 2.0 TDCi Mondeo estate Titanium X on a 55 plate as a company car and that was quick for a big car and again could return 50 MPG on a run. My dad has an X Type 2.0D Estate which again is a quick car and very economical. The 2.2 Mondeo ST TDCi was a license loser - everyone I know who had one as a company car got points for speeding!!

As for the stereo - probably find some oik entrusted with washing the car had fanny'd around with the bass, treble and DSP to suit his rave (do kids still go to those?? LOL) damaged ears and the excuse of a noise they have the cheek to call music. The Sony branded Ford units are actually very good - I've had them in my last 4 company cars and had nothing but praise for them - and in my younger days I used to have almost £2,5K worth of audio in my car - being an audiophile I appreciate how the sound engineers intended the music to sound and have found the Sony units and the uprated speakers associated with them more than adequate.

As for being a good car - I stand by that. I have a 2.0 Titanium 5 door new shape (with the Mondeo style front) on order as a company car for the Mrs to replace the 2007 model Fiesta ST. My other company car is a 2007 model 2.7 TDV6 XS Land Rover Discovery 3 - I love that so much the current black one is being replaced in Feb with a blue one!!

Si.

Offline TwinTurbo

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TDCI focus a disapointment
« Reply #2 on: January 14, 2008, 09:35:05 AM »
It did not seem to come on boost until 2500rpm, once there it did shift reasonably..

It was only a 5spd  I assumed it was a 1.8, perhaps being a 1.6 would explain it. We tried all driving styles. the most efectve was droping to third to get it on boost and keeping it there.

It was nowhere near as slow as a Mk5 non turbo diesel van. It was new to the department and I took it 800 miles. And when I got back I my manager it was useless and had to go back. he told me to stop being so stupid. So I handed him the key and told him to take it for a spin. It went back to the dealer the next day to be replaced by a much livlier Astra..

As for the stereo, having only covered 7 miles it was set at power up settings. I tried the 3 band tone controls but we could not find a decent setting. Part of it was down to the radio broadcasts ( some better than others ) and with the tuner seemingly a bit weak anyway perhaps it was just the tuner stage, we did not have a CD to test with.  My personal experience of sony ICE has always been uninspiring apart from a unit I had 15 years ago which was gr8.

Perhaps I am just expecting too much from a mid size ( not owned one for 16 years )


4) the seats gave me two numb butt cheaks..

TT

doglegsxr

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TDCI focus a disapointment
« Reply #3 on: January 14, 2008, 11:49:57 AM »
cant fault my 07 focus and it's only a 1.6 esate stereo's great got good bass mind mine is a petrol pulls well to i know it's only the lx model but it's great dont how i've lived without an estate all these years only critisism i have is the light leveling switch is in a place you cant see it behind the steering wheel but seen as i dont realy use it not realy a gripe and the other thing is the drivers side window one touch to put it down but why did'nt they have a one touch for bringing it back up sombody was'nt thinking for when you go to pay for your petrol at the kiosk and your driving away you just want to push it once you dont want to be keeping your finger on it while driving away .

Marty

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TDCI focus a disapointment
« Reply #4 on: January 14, 2008, 11:57:43 AM »
Quote from: TwinTurbo


3) Now 2 could have been forgiven if MPG was good. But over 550 miles clear crusing at 75mph we only managed 41MPG!

So nice car, crap radio, disapointing engine..

TT


Thats is crap!!!!

My old 24V could manage mid 30's and that petrol
I'm pleased with the ricer on a run it does 45pmg, but like you I expected newer diesel car to be better  
The new diesel Mondeos seem quick, when I had my old 12V I could bearly keep up with one upto a ton he defo had the egde over me.

Offline Tony

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TDCI focus a disapointment
« Reply #5 on: January 14, 2008, 12:46:50 PM »
hhmmm
well due to ford NOT making RWD cars now i was forced to look else where.
i had an escort tdi is was terrible, pile of poo, tryed mondy/focus and was not impressed at all, not only is the power an issue,, all that wieght up front and bugger all at the back doesnt work for me, i do not like FWD and wouldnt have one unless i needed to!

bought a BMW 320d tourer,,, i am very impressed with the petrol version, as a car it was just "right" in every way,,
 however due to the pushy sales man i tryed the car i have now,,
2003 320d tourer

it goes faster than the petrol 2ltr, i cannot get below 48mpg even with ragging it localy and on a run i can hit near 60mpg (at costant 65mph on c/control, aircon off),,,, i have found its chipped tho :wink:

i am a ford man, will always play with older cars, but as long as ford make new FWD cars i aint having one.

the 24v xr4i auto-0 to 60 in 6.71 secs

Super 12v

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TDCI focus a disapointment
« Reply #6 on: January 14, 2008, 15:12:36 PM »
TT, my 1.8 tddi manages 55mpg usually from pure motorway driving, round town is a bit crap, but I've yet to own a car that doesn't drink round town! A Collegue of mine has just bought a tdci 3 door edge and he gets crap MPG in comparison, but as said he's just bought it and suspect still getting used it.

So is this Sony stereo standard as mine had a run of the mill ford thing and was great, only took mine out to put my mp3 player in.

I love my estate, but I didn't buy it for speed or looks :D does what it say's on the tin

Rob

Offline TwinTurbo

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TDCI focus a disapointment
« Reply #7 on: January 14, 2008, 16:06:50 PM »
Andy: They don't do one toutch up for safety reasons, don't want peeps choping their heads off and can't justify the cost of decent torque sensing motors that will give reliable results over the life of the car.

And we had done 450 miles complaining about poor road markings before we found the headlamp control and set them to 0! That improved things a bit!

Tony: Having driven my Si Mondeo 24v just a few miles it reminded me why I hate FWD... It's just getting very difficult to find good Sierras and as you have found it's finding anything else RWD that's troublesome too..

Rob: It was a clear fairly steady cruise at 75 from Carlisle to letchworth and back on the A1 . AC off .. I realy can't understand why we only got 41mpg..

Yeah the Sony was standard....  

TT

Simon 3 door

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TDCI focus a disapointment
« Reply #8 on: January 14, 2008, 18:08:16 PM »
Quote from: Marty
Thats is crap!!!!

My old 24V could manage mid 30's and that petrol
I'm pleased with the ricer on a run it does 45pmg, but like you I expected newer diesel car to be better  
The new diesel Mondeos seem quick, when I had my old 12V I could bearly keep up with one upto a ton he defo had the egde over me.

By the way you described how you were driving, you "drove it like you stole it" (cruisin at 75 is one thing but knocking the arse out of it up to 75 will seriously harm your fuel efficiency) hence 41 mpg ain't bad. If you drive sensibly then you can easily see 50+. The new new (08) Focus 1.6 TDCi has class leading emissions (as low as 116g/km) therefore at the same time is more fuel efficient.

The DW10 Mondeo is quick - wait for the 2.2 DW12 - that'll be in a new league.

Offline TwinTurbo

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TDCI focus a disapointment
« Reply #9 on: January 14, 2008, 18:33:49 PM »
Would not say nocking the arse out of it, 20 roundabouts over 500 ish miles and going from low speedl to 75 at a brisk pace.

I did the same route with the 24V Scorpio estate in busier traffic but similar driving and got 29mpg..

TT


24v_Paul

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TDCI focus a disapointment
« Reply #10 on: January 14, 2008, 19:16:54 PM »
Quote from: TwinTurbo
Andy: They don't do one toutch up for safety reasons, don't want peeps choping their heads off and can't justify the cost of decent torque sensing motors that will give reliable results over the life of the car.


My 03 Mondeo Ghia TDCi has one touch up windows all round, maybe it wasn't set, I had to do mine when I got it.

As for for the engine, when I first got it, I thought it was gutless, now I'm use to it, it goes like stink! Around town, I'm getting 35ish mpg, on a run, 50+, and thats above motorway speeds, 70mph is 1900rpm in 6th, it likes to cruise about 85-90 I find.

Simon 3 door

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TDCI focus a disapointment
« Reply #11 on: January 14, 2008, 19:38:22 PM »
Quote from: 24v_Paul
My 03 Mondeo Ghia TDCi has one touch up windows all round, maybe it wasn't set, I had to do mine when I got it.

As for for the engine, when I first got it, I thought it was gutless, now I'm use to it, it goes like stink! Around town, I'm getting 35ish mpg, on a run, 50+, and thats above motorway speeds, 70mph is 1900rpm in 6th, it likes to cruise about 85-90 I find.

Like I said you have to almost learn to drive all over again to drive on the torque curve. Once you do that and don't waste time trying to redline the thing you notice you're leaving many boy racers in a sooty cloud!

bortaf

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TDCI focus a disapointment
« Reply #12 on: January 16, 2008, 03:31:41 AM »
I recon it was a bit tight, most diesels i've had got better with age, on the modeo forums i've read the same on fuel comsumption threads.

spanner

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« Reply #13 on: January 18, 2008, 19:58:34 PM »
Must have had the 1.6 Rob, Jayne's c-max is the 1.6 TDCi and she hates it saying it's got no go. Mpg also low 40's but then again it's a bit of a square box to shift.

Next time we're passing your door I'll have to come take you for a spin in a propper one, which is still returning me 48.6mpg at speeds over 75. I'm normally averaging 52mpg sticking to speed limits and anything up too 56mpg on a long haul. Oh and driving normally the revvs are never over 2,000rpm even between gear changes. No need to have it screaming I've bags of torque.

Agree with everything Simon says in his first reply - man who knows about diesels.
« Last Edit: January 18, 2008, 20:00:55 PM by spanner »

Simon 3 door

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TDCI focus a disapointment
« Reply #14 on: January 18, 2008, 20:53:54 PM »
Quote from: spanner

Agree with everything Simon says in his first reply - man who knows about diesels.

LOL so it shows that I might have spent a few years in and around diesels then? As an apprentice at Dunton, I was in the engine lab. Sadly one of the much loved test engineers died after an off on his motor bike (really nice bloke too called Dave Chester) and as the technical apprentice I had to step into the breach looking after several manned engine test facilities. Steep learning curve and it was at a crucial time in the development of the Lynx 1.8 TDDi engine. I ended up as the shift test engineer looking after the most advanced passenger and light commercial vehicle engine test facility in the world.

Since then I've been a senior engineer and now I'm management grade. Happy days.


spanner

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TDCI focus a disapointment
« Reply #15 on: January 19, 2008, 01:00:36 AM »
Well Simon I just knew by everything you said that you HAD experience driving diesels lol

25 years in motor trade myself driving all sorts every day of the week, I bought the mondy because I'd driven many and was impressed with the engine over Vauxhall - peugeot - vw etc. Apart from fords fuel pump problems with the earlier mk3 mondy the engine seems to be a very good one. VW also good but they were breaking too many crankshaft pulley's at the time causing expensive repairs. Anything french have crap cooling systems which always lead to cylinder head problems lol

Our parts suppliers rep told me today some of the vauxhalls were breaking timing chains at 17,000 miles. Told me this as I was draining one of the newest corsa's of fuel because the owner filled it with petrol instead of diesel and driven it 3 miles. Why was I hoping it would be knackered? lol

Simon 3 door

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TDCI focus a disapointment
« Reply #16 on: January 19, 2008, 18:04:19 PM »
Quote from: spanner
Well Simon I just knew by everything you said that you HAD experience driving diesels lol

25 years in motor trade myself driving all sorts every day of the week, I bought the mondy because I'd driven many and was impressed with the engine over Vauxhall - peugeot - vw etc. Apart from fords fuel pump problems with the earlier mk3 mondy the engine seems to be a very good one. VW also good but they were breaking too many crankshaft pulley's at the time causing expensive repairs. Anything french have crap cooling systems which always lead to cylinder head problems lol

Our parts suppliers rep told me today some of the vauxhalls were breaking timing chains at 17,000 miles. Told me this as I was draining one of the newest corsa's of fuel because the owner filled it with petrol instead of diesel and driven it 3 miles. Why was I hoping it would be knackered? lol

Have you seen the new Ford EasyFuel system?? Makes it impossible to misfuel your car. Only the correct nozzle will fit as the filler neck only opens to the correct diameter of fuel nozzle. It's already on Mondeo and the Feb 2008 New Focus also has it.

spanner

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« Reply #17 on: January 19, 2008, 18:31:41 PM »
Thats no good for Taps &  myself Simon, doing us out of work lol

Offline TwinTurbo

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TDCI focus a disapointment
« Reply #18 on: January 19, 2008, 19:34:53 PM »
Yeah pop in next time your passing, you have our new address now and you can see the fleet!! And The little one.

We were a bit gutted anyway, the docket said the car was a Mondeo ( would have been nice to drive a mk4 ) I had to point out to my colleague when he picked me up that it was a Focus.. He thought it was a bit small  for a mono!!!

TT

spanner

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« Reply #19 on: January 19, 2008, 21:10:50 PM »
Do I fill my boot with tools and bring a boilersuit with me?

Was talking to a friend the other day that works in the bodyshop of local ford agent. He was saying the new mondeo was nothing but trouble  don't know what the problems are but they're stuck on a diagnostic machine for up to 2hrs at a time trying to find the faults.
« Last Edit: January 19, 2008, 21:11:19 PM by spanner »

Offline TwinTurbo

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TDCI focus a disapointment
« Reply #20 on: January 19, 2008, 21:58:34 PM »
 

I have 3 Legal MOT'd cars  and the Sapphy and Scorpio that are not    Still got to get round to fixing the scorpio after that crappy MOT failure sheet. At least it was the regular guy who did the Mondeo and he knows what he's on about it was a bit unfortunat that I had it in on new years eve and the emissions rig was down so he could not get it finished till the rig was fixed a week later!!

TT

Simon 3 door

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TDCI focus a disapointment
« Reply #21 on: January 20, 2008, 10:17:30 AM »
Quote from: TwinTurbo
 

I have 3 Legal MOT'd cars  and the Sapphy and Scorpio that are not    Still got to get round to fixing the scorpio after that crappy MOT failure sheet. At least it was the regular guy who did the Mondeo and he knows what he's on about it was a bit unfortunat that I had it in on new years eve and the emissions rig was down so he could not get it finished till the rig was fixed a week later!!

TT

I've got to do something with my car situation. Currently the stable comprises of:

1996 Land Rover Discovery V8iES Auto (only 63K miles from memory)
2007 Fiesta ST
2007 Land Rover Discovery TDV6 XS Auto
Project 3 door 4x4

The 96 Disco has got to go - just haven't got round to putting a new cam in it yet (known problem with the cams walking in the head when warm so at idle you get a low frequency knock). Ideal LPG conversion material plus it's got uprated springs and shocks for decent handling and there's a full poly bush kit in the garage for it too. Otherwise the engine is like a sewing machine - sooooo smooth and powerful.

The ST is being replaced in March with a 2008 Focus (New shape which goes on sale Feb) 2.0 Titanium 5 door in black (for the Mrs) and the Disco TDV6 is being replaced by another Disco TDV6 Auto - just changing colour from black to blue. Seems like that's happening some time in Feb.

 

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