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Author Topic: boa bob custom mls headgaskets  (Read 5833 times)

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Offline turboshed

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boa bob custom mls headgaskets
« on: May 17, 2013, 00:07:15 AM »
I have been researching into head gaskets and I am Just seeing if anybody wants to jump on board on a group buy of v6 cosworth boa/bob multi steel layer headgaskets.
Ade and I have sourced a manufacturer to produce a set of gaskets,if we can get 3 sets made then the price will lower.
To get these made by cometic would cost over 3k+ for tooling,design etc ,then the cost of the gaskets.....ouch
   these gaskets at the moment will be £285 a set plus postage with a 2-3 week lead time....bargain compared to cometic.
The mls gasket is now pretty much the best gasket you can fit to any engine be it race or road.
they will look similar in design to photo below which are custom gaskets they have made for another customer,the materials used are the same as cometic



they will be 1.25mm thick and a 95mm bore multilayer stainless steel/viton sealant gasket.
No sealant would be needed and no need for wire ringing the block for turbo applications,the heat from cylinders is spread across the whole gasket not just fire rings.
  the engine block and heads would need to be in A1 condition to be able to work correctly,if fitting to old engine then i would suggest still using the soft standard composite gasket as it will deal with an irregular surface better for seal waterways etc. I found with bga gaskets that they would not sell the head gaskets seperately so over £200 for an aftermarket set these gaskets dont seem to exspensive in comparison.
if anybody wants a different bore/thickness then it will be at no extra cost.
 The standard headgasket as far as im aware stands upto to boost charging,although just recently heard of a failure at 10psi of a standard ford gasket.
   if you spending alot of money on an engine and you want it to last then these gaskets will give peace of mind.
On high power high compression diesel industrial engines i work on the mls gasket replaced the old style composites which would fail after a few years and since the change I have not seen a failure for years now!


xr4x4 twin dinky turbo, emerald k3 management,302bhp and 400ftlbs@21 psi

Offline uwe

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Re: boa bob custom mls headgaskets
« Reply #1 on: May 17, 2013, 06:44:57 AM »
Hi,that are great news!!!

I have asked to ELRING a few mounth ago for making a set of multilayer gasketset for a cologne V6.
And yes they told me the same prices.
But for GBP 285,- one set for me,please !
My boa based cosworth engine has a bore of 95 mm so this gaskets would work fine.
Just drop me an pm with all your requirement you need.

cheers Uwe

Offline turboshed

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Re: boa bob custom mls headgaskets
« Reply #2 on: May 17, 2013, 11:59:07 AM »
Ok i will add you to the list.once the amount of gaskets needed is known then we can get a final price including postsge.no profit from this just a groupbuy.
xr4x4 twin dinky turbo, emerald k3 management,302bhp and 400ftlbs@21 psi

Offline turboshed

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Re: boa bob custom mls headgaskets
« Reply #3 on: May 17, 2013, 12:02:16 PM »
Uwe
 what pistons have got and what is diameter of the crowm above the first ring? if forged they should smaller than 95mm to account for exspansion
xr4x4 twin dinky turbo, emerald k3 management,302bhp and 400ftlbs@21 psi

Offline capri v8 driver

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Re: boa bob custom mls headgaskets
« Reply #4 on: May 17, 2013, 19:36:42 PM »
A other advantage of the MLS gasket is that you can re-use them. At least, the comic ones. I use them as much as possible.

Turboshed is right, when using MLS gaskets, the engine block and heads surface finish with a  must be in a range from 15 to 30 Ra (roughness average) or less. The smoother the gasket surface, the better these gaskets work.

greetz Paul.

Capri V8 Driver.

Offline uwe

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Re: boa bob custom mls headgaskets
« Reply #5 on: May 17, 2013, 22:31:24 PM »
Uwe
 what pistons have got and what is diameter of the crowm above the first ring? if forged they should smaller than 95mm to account for exspansion

I have ROSS Racing Pistons from the US.The bore diameter is 95mm.The piston clearance to bore surface is 0.13 to 0.17 mm.
With that dimensions I am sure the 95mm gasket will work ok.
The heads are fully prepaired for full n/a racing specifications with skimmed head surfacese.The engine block heard surface,too.
I think these Metall gaskets are the ultimate choice for my 24V race engine...
cheers Uwe

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Re: boa bob custom mls headgaskets
« Reply #6 on: July 10, 2013, 14:07:43 PM »
Uwe
 what pistons have got and what is diameter of the crowm above the first ring? if forged they should smaller than 95mm to account for exspansion

I have ROSS Racing Pistons from the US.The bore diameter is 95mm.The piston clearance to bore surface is 0.13 to 0.17 mm.
With that dimensions I am sure the 95mm gasket will work ok.
The heads are fully prepaired for full n/a racing specifications with skimmed head surfacese.The engine block heard surface,too.
I think these Metall gaskets are the ultimate choice for my 24V race engine...
cheers Uwe


Hi uwe due to lack of interest and budget this has been shelved but i can pass details to you if want a set.they will cost more for one set though.if gaskets start to fail later then i will revisit the idea.
xr4x4 twin dinky turbo, emerald k3 management,302bhp and 400ftlbs@21 psi

Offline Dave

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Re: boa bob custom mls headgaskets
« Reply #7 on: July 12, 2013, 08:32:10 AM »

When they first started using them gaskets on YB's they had a lot of problems with them so to be honest you have probably saved yourself a lot of hassle & money.

Just decent STD gaskets with studs or 12.9 bolts & a O ringed block is all you need.

Been proven to be reliable to over 700bhp with a 24V.
Dave

Offline capri v8 driver

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Re: boa bob custom mls headgaskets
« Reply #8 on: July 12, 2013, 20:08:28 PM »

When they first started using them gaskets on YB's they had a lot of problems with them so to be honest you have probably saved yourself a lot of hassle & money.


And why did they have problems with mls gaskets?

the engine block and heads surface finish with a must be in a range from 15 to 30 Ra (roughness average) or less. The smoother the gasket surface, the better these gaskets work.

But the stock surfaces of ford engines is 45 Ra to 60 Ra and no one thought about that or the people just took the chances and failed. Now we know you need to make sure the head and block surfaces are 30 RA or beter, less.

I use MLS gaskets for all my v8 builds for years, not one, till to day, failed.

Yes the graphite gasket can take a lot, still, once a head lifts due the pressure in the cylinders, its game over, very soon, because a graphite gasket doesn't like to move. You should know that by now, Dave.   
greetz Paul.

Capri V8 Driver.

Offline Dave

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Re: boa bob custom mls headgaskets
« Reply #9 on: July 13, 2013, 10:10:04 AM »
Quote
Yes the graphite gasket can take a lot, still, once a head lifts due the pressure in the cylinders, its game over, very soon, because a graphite gasket doesn't like to move. You should know that by now, Dave.

Yeah I have 1st hand experience of it lol!

It's the fire ring that fails, when the heads lift you loose the clamping force, the cylinder pressures start to distort the fire ring & start to go past it causing your coolant to pressurize.
Keep pushing & it will burst the fire ring spraying water out the side of the block in spectacular style.  ;D

Been there done that!

I have talked to many gasket specialists etc & firstly they don't all agree on the solution which is annoying, like everything people have their own idea's on things.
MLS gaskets was talked about but I soon dismissed it for the V6 cologne.

1. The block's are usually far from perfect, water damage is common & they would need to be re-faced.
2. Same with the heads they also would need work, 24v heads are terrible sometimes.
3. Very expensive.
4. I would still have to figure out how to increase the clamping forces.
5. 12V heads are weak & distort slightly under load so there would be a very good chance the gaskets
    would fail anyway if prep was 100% right.


I looked at the gas filled rings solution, sounds good & looks good on paper but again very expensive to do.
It would allow the heads to distort slightly & lift a bit.
The cost put me off & I have since found out it doesn't work!
Gengis has them on his engine & at full power he still has coolant pressurizing problems.
Thank god I didn't go down that route!


Out of everything I looked at the welding wire O rings looked the best solution.

1. It's cheap as chips, I borrowed the tool from my local dyno garage & gave him £20.
2. It's easy to do, I did it in the back of my van as I could not be arsed to lift the block out of it!
   The ex pro YB guys tell me all they used to do was remove the head & do them in the engine bay, it
   was a 5 hour job.
3. No special work needed other than the groove cut into the block or head.
4. STD gaskets are used. Again the YB guys tell me that when they first started doing them they used
    uprated gaskets too but soon realized that they didn't need to so they started fitting gaskets from the
    local motor factors as they was a 1/3 of the price & they was fine.
5. Been proven again & again.
6. Increases clamp force around the fire ring.
7. As STD gaskets are used they can put up with some head distortion & lift.


So I didn't have to think about it too long once I did the research  :mellow:

That's my view on it anyways!

Don't get me wrong in the right application the MLS gaskets are the best choice by far.
But for an old V6 Ford I can see problems & some development needed.
Oh & money lol!
Dave

 

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