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Author Topic: Raising Funds for a 24V Manual ECU Fund (testing water atm) NEW ADDITION CHOICE  (Read 19982 times)

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Offline Dave2302

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Right, as some of you may know, 3 of us have put a lot of time getting 2 different V6 Cosworths succesfully running on  V6 Manual Mondeo EECV ECUs (1997 "RUTH" ECU).

Std Early BOB 24V ECU is an "EXIT"

We are now at the stage where we would like to be able to remap them, alter settings etc to improve on a few things.
I have spent a few hundred £ on hardware and software, which means this can theoretically be done by anyone with a reasonable laptop and the right lead.

However, the crunch is that to proceed further we need what is called a def (definition) file and these can take a professional up to 100 hours to create.  There are very few professionals who can do this, but I have one who has quoted £1000 to do this.

Now what I'm after atm............

If anyone here is running or building a car with a V6 Cosworth BOB and manual trans, (or even running anything with a V6 Duratec), and you would like to be able to use and map this ECU would you be prepared to make a donation to get this file produced, as if we get say 10 then it would only be £100 each.

So for now, on here, can we get a list of names who will pledge a maximum amount, AND NEXT TO YOUR PLEDGE PUT "EXIT", "RUTH" or "NO PREFERENCE" for the type of ECU you would like developed.
If we get enough interest I will proceed with getting the money in and getting the file done, and it plus all the other info I have will be made available to those who have paid up.

If we get more max's than the total then we will reduce the amount required, for example if 10 guys pledge £200 each, then it will actually only require £100 each, etc etc  ;)

After we have the file, I'm open to discussion as to how we make it available to others, perhaps donations to this site ??
Suggestions welcomed.

I know it goes without saying, but please don't pledge an amount if you aren't going to pay up later down the road !!

Cheers Dave


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Offline Dave2302

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Re: Raising Funds for a 24V Manual ECU Fund (testing water atm)
« Reply #1 on: February 01, 2013, 10:01:12 AM »
Right, money where mouth is...........

I will pledge up to £200 for the Def file creation. "NO PREFERENCE", RUTH or EXIT ECU

Dave
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Offline Matt

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Re: Raising Funds for a 24V Manual ECU Fund (testing water atm)
« Reply #2 on: February 01, 2013, 15:46:49 PM »
I'll pledge to, £200 from me as ive got 3 ecu's  :rolleyes:
24v Manual Scorpio **FDS2000 Scans - Birmingham**

Offline Cortiworth IV

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Re: Raising Funds for a 24V Manual ECU Fund (testing water atm)
« Reply #3 on: February 01, 2013, 23:32:44 PM »
I'm in for £200, too.

Are you planning on cracking any of the std BOB ECUs as well?

Offline Dave2302

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Re: Raising Funds for a 24V Manual ECU Fund (testing water atm)
« Reply #4 on: February 02, 2013, 10:59:56 AM »
Thanks fellas,

Well that's great news so far, another few like that and we can get it done relatvely quickly, the more that come in the cheaper it will be for us all.

Regards the other ECU's we plan on doing those ourselves,but to be realistic that could take at least until the end of this year as beginners like me can take 800 - 1000 hours to get it right, and Dave, Matt and myself are only looking at this in spare time which is very scarce to us due to all our other commitments etc but yes they will get done eventually..................

If there is a software engineer among you all, maybe a semi retired guy who has an interest in cars and likes a project, and who is familiar with Intel 8065 op codes then that would help to speed it up no end ??????????

Cheers Dave
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Offline REGMCI

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Re: Raising Funds for a 24V Manual ECU Fund (testing water atm)
« Reply #5 on: February 02, 2013, 18:10:52 PM »
Hi All!

I am ready to give 100€

My bob ECU is EXAM
My ST24 MT ECU is RARE (as Matt)

If I can help PM me. ;)
Don't Scrap it, Restore it!

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Offline Dave

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Re: Raising Funds for a 24V Manual ECU Fund (testing water atm)
« Reply #6 on: February 03, 2013, 01:15:35 AM »
Hmm I think you will have far more interest if you go with an early 24V BOB ECU.

Not ideal for you I know Dave but that is your market & a simple add on eBay for a send to me, I send back a flashed PATs, auto box delete & a tune up ECU would rake in a few pennies I am sure.

Where as using the RARE will limit the market.

However I will pledge £200 to the cause just because it's interesting ;D

What ever you decide we will try & crack the other but as said many times it will take some time as we are all busy people & this job takes a lot of time which is why it costs so much in the first place ;D
Dave

Offline Dave2302

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Re: Raising Funds for a 24V Manual ECU Fund (testing water atm)
« Reply #7 on: February 04, 2013, 09:01:04 AM »
Good point Dave,

It it isn't that hard for me to go back to EXIT, just add a EDIS module and alter my pin outs slightly  ;)

Okay then, lets alter it slightly, and those who have already pledged can edit there pledge if required, I'll edit first post  ;).............

Simply put your pledge and next to it a preference of either "EXIT" (early 24V BOB Automatic ECU) or "RUTH" (Duratec V6 Manual ECU) which BOB  24V will run on) and needs no EDIS module and no postcat Lambdas..............or if "NO PREFERENCE" selected then I'll assume either ECU for now.

Can contact pledgees ? later if we decide to go ahead and make sure they all happy before we proceed  ;)

Cheers Dave
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Offline Dave

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Yeah Dave purly from a marketing point the early BOB ECU's are the one.

1. If you buy a car for the engine you will have it, an engine off ebay usally comes with it & it's the correct ECU for the engine.

2. No need to go looking & pay extra for another ECU.

3. Easier to wire in.

4. It's bin file is half the size of the RUTH so should cost less to obtain a def file I would have thought.

5. Simply makes sense.

Any of the first 5 BOB ECU's (94 -97ish) could be re-flashed with the same bin, maybe the other two also but not sure as different hardware code.

All BOB ECU's have a very similar strategy so probably all very similar def files for practice lol!

Could use this practice to work on the RUTH if still desired.


Saying all that I am not bothered either way!


 1. Dave2302 - NO PREFERENCE - £200
 2. Dave        - NO PREFERENCE - £200
 3.
 4.
 5.
 6.
 7.
 8.
 9.
10.
Dave

Offline Matt

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Me - No preference £200

Dave' if the bin is being made couldnt you dump the post cat lambda,

you'll need a clutch control though to stop the engine spiking when the clutch is depressed,

think we need to look at which ecu is best overall and go for that
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Offline Cortiworth IV

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Yeah Dave purly from a marketing point the early BOB ECU's are the one.

1. If you buy a car for the engine you will have it, an engine off ebay usally comes with it & it's the correct ECU for the engine.

2. No need to go looking & pay extra for another ECU.

3. Easier to wire in.

4. It's bin file is half the size of the RUTH so should cost less to obtain a def file I would have thought.

5. Simply makes sense.

Any of the first 5 BOB ECU's (94 -97ish) could be re-flashed with the same bin, maybe the other two also but not sure as different hardware code.

All BOB ECU's have a very similar strategy so probably all very similar def files for practice lol!

Could use this practice to work on the RUTH if still desired.


Saying all that I am not bothered either way!


 1. Dave2302 - NO PREFERENCE - £200
 2. Dave        - NO PREFERENCE - £200
 3. Cortiworth - EXIT or whatever BOB ecu - £200
 4.
 5.
 6.
 7.
 8.
 9.
10.

Offline Dave2302

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Yeah, makes sense Matt..................

I've got a clutch pedal switch on the RUTH already, could that not be wired in parralell to the Brake switch on EXIT ?

Post Cat Lambdas don't seem to affect the running of BOB anyway but I presume these could be deleted with a "comprehensive" Def file, but it all depends exactly what can be deciphered, because apparantly you can never work it all out unless we can get hold of the Ford Strategy Document for ABARO, the Yanks got a leaked doc for the Mustang ECU which is why / how they have been able to decode pretty much all of that one  ;)  
ABARO def should work with some of the other BOB ECU's with similair strategy, perhaps with a few tweaks  ;)
Apparantly the price was for the ABARO strategy EXIT and not the ATAFF strategy RUTH as it turns out  :(

Another "EXIT" conversation is on the go atm.................more on that one in a day or 2 if it works out favourably  ;)  ;D

Cheers for now,
Dave
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Offline Dave

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The 24v ECU HACK Capital fund!

 1. Dave2302  - NO PREFERENCE                 - £200
 2. Dave         - NO PREFERENCE                 - £200
 3. Cortiworth - EXIT or whatever BOB ecu   - £200
 4. Matt         - NO PREFERENCE                 - £200
 5.
 6.
 7.
 8.
 9.
10.


Dave once you make a killing on eBay you can pay us all back LOL!  ;D
Dave

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Put me down for £100
I can't contribute much to this site in terms of knowledge so it's the least I can do . :blink:
Matt

Offline Dave2302

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The 24v ECU HACK Capital fund!

 Dave once you make a killing on eBay you can pay us all back LOL!  ;D

LOL  ;D

No, no EBay LOL..................

The idea is once we collect money and get it done, the fund is finished and all who have put into it get their ECU's flashed for free, then anyone else who wants it done who has not paid in will have to make a donation to this site, unless any of the "pledgees" have any better ideas  ;)

There is also a special lead to buy around £150 - £200 which enables the ECU to be reflashed via Binar Editor thru the OBD port, so it won't have an extra chip hanging out the back on the J3 port.
My Moates gear will only read the chip via J3 it won't re flash the internal chip, Moates will only flash using an extra chip on a J3 adaptor or a Quarterhorse on the J3 and I for one don't want that hanging out the back of my ECU lol  ;)

EEC4 ECU internal ROM Chips can't be reflashed, but EECV can, so IMHO thats the way to do it  ;)

An email containing a file has turned up today, but I've got to pay and register Binary Editor before I can use it, will report back on that one later  ;D

Cheers for now,

Dave
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Offline Dave

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1. Dave2302  - NO PREFERENCE                 - £200
 2. Dave         - NO PREFERENCE                 - £200
 3. Cortiworth - EXIT or whatever BOB ecu   - £200
 4. Matt         - NO PREFERENCE                 - £200
 5. T4T         - NO PREFERENCE                  - £100
 6.
 7.
 8.
 9.
10.

Hi All!
I am ready to give 100€
My bob ECU is EXAM
My ST24 MT ECU is RARE (as Matt)
If I can help PM me. ;)

You still want in REGMCI ?

Quote
There is also a special lead to buy around £150 - £200 which enables the ECU to be reflashed via Binar Editor thru the OBD port, so it won't have an extra chip hanging out the back on the J3 port.

Yeah but we just send our ECU's to you don't we Dave?

You mean who ever wants the def file at a later date right.


Just a thought mate, this kind of stuff shouldn't cost you once you have something that works.

People will want it & will pay for it.

That's how I work mate, things either don't cost me anything or I make a profit usally.

But I do spend loads a time on stuff!
Dave

Offline Dave2302

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Dave,

Yeah, postal ECU's is not a problem, but bloody Clint Garrity Binary Editor is atm............

It is the only program that will reflash the internal chip in the ECU, and requires a Mongoose J2534 Pass thru lead with FEPS circuitry that is around £450..................ok not a real big deal, don't need it until we are ready to rock on multiple ECU's.

The Moates I have will only reflash a J3 adaptor with chip, will buy one of them first as its USD $60 and will do us for testing our work.

Binary Editor.............I paid for the software USD $100 but then he says thats no good, need to pay an extra $60 for a dongle to reflash using Moates..........OK, so he refunded me the $100 and now I've got to pay $160 plus $11 carriage.............Still no problem, except he's now gone away for a week, so I won't get the licence for a week so can't use it atm.
The Tuner Pro is no good for flashing, and also has that anomaly readng the 112k bins, which others on EEC Geeks reckon don't happen with the CG BE  ;)

But also, when we come to use the Mongoose lead I'll then have to pay another USD $100 for a licence to do that.............
Then we can do one ECU...............after that we have to buy "tokens" on a licence to do other ECU's, (not sure what they cost yet)!!Seems "old" Clint has got that well sewn up  ;)

Then theres the payment for the def file, which comes encrypted, (cry file), so not sure if we can add on to it as we work other bits out ourselves ??

I now have in my possession a small def file for ABARO (EXIT) which only works with CG BE and does Transmission Type and all the Cooling Fan settings which will get my Puma driving good on an EXIT for now  ;)

Still working on PATS, EGR, Post Cat Lambdas, Can Purge etc which will cost a bit, but hopefully not a grand, and may not be as good as we think, (EGR delete for example, might have to fudge the multipliers with a load of Binary 1's), to lose the "leaning off" effect when ECU thinks EGR is "operative" as we may not be able to get all of them to delete  ;)

After that can we get away with just Base Fueling and Base Spark for tuning or will we need more  ??
Will that be enough for our needs atm ??

I hear what you are saying with the "spend to accumulate", but I'm spending out a fortune atm on other stuff, and tied up with other things, so need to get more work done before I can get Mongoose lead etc, so thats why I think using a J3 Chip on mine for now as I can find $60 for that bit right now  ;)

Input Please  ;D

Cheers for now

Dave
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Offline Dave

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Hold on a minute Dave this is getting silly expensive!


So what was the quarterhouse $250?

Flash add on                             $60

Special lead to reflash EECV      $450

Binary editor with dongle          $160

Then a charge for each flash       ????

& the DEF file creation              $1500

plus all the shipping & import crap.

So we are talking around 1700 pounds  :o

I think your plan is to run the Puma as it is for now but later a 2.5 turbo maybe in the pipe line.

Your gonna need to know where alot of the addresses are to be able to use the EECV with a turbo.


Sersously maybe you should price up a mega squirt or even the main stream aftermarket stuff before you go further mate.


It looks like it's cheap tuning for the known ECU's but there is so many little add ons & unknowns for new stuff it's expensive!


All very cool & all but is it worth it, more importantly is it gonna do what you want :unsure:
Dave

Offline REGMCI

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You still want in REGMCI ?

Re,

Yes I still want Dave ;)

For suming up, Every 1st gen EEC-V ECU (so with exterior Pats) can be reflashed with new Def files and run on every BOB engine using 1st type of EEC-V

So no metter my BOB ECU is EXAM or EXIT or other 1st type EEC-V ecu.

Am I right?
Don't Scrap it, Restore it!

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Offline Dave2302

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REGCMI,

Yes any 2 Bank EECV, all the Cosworth V6 ones, (except the mythical very late 98 one that no one has seen, as I suspect that is 256k), can be flashed with a bin from the others.................I have an EXIT with a FILM calibration in it  ;D

Dave,

Hear you but its not all doom and expense  ;)

I didn't buy a QH cos it hangs out the back of the ECU, what I bought was Moates Burn2 and a J3 adaptor, with which we can read all EECIV and EECV bins.
With that we can reflash J3 "add on" chips which are $60 a go but these too plug ino the ECU, no biggie for the first one to make sure we got it right  ;)

After that the utimate goal is to Reflash the ECU chip, which can only be done with Clint's Binary Editor, thru OBD port but that does require the Mongoose lead...........£450 brand new.........It's the same lead as used for Jaguar / Landrover so I may pick up a s/h one in due course and we don't need that until we are ready to do multiple ECU's, flashing their internal ROM chips.

Up until now I have been using the cheapo $30 Tunerpro software, but as we found out it is quirky on some bin reads and won't reflash ECU Chip.

EEC Geeks are all using Clint's Binary Editor, which does all sorts including Datalogging and reflashing EECV via OBD.
I've played with the test version and it really is a tool  ;)

The software costs $100 (about £67), but you cant reflash anything until you buy the hardware option (dongle at $60), so I've now bought the software and dongle yesterday................Cheeky git did rush me an extra $23.95 on top of the advertised $11,for postage to UK tho  ;)

So now the only other purchase to be made is the lead, which I don't need until I am ready to reflash the internal ROM and the def file which either we will do slowly or will purchase as per title of this post  ;)

Once I have a working file all I need is the $60 J3 chip from Moates to try it out on my car, to see if it is all working, that's why I'm just going to change the Transmission and Fan On / Off's for now, then the Puma will run on EXIT with it's BOB Fuel Map and VIS  ;)

Once that works I'll Expand the def and try adjusting / deleting more  ;D
Then it's time for the Mongoose and reflash my internal ROM Chip  ;D

After that, to do anyone elses I just buy a token each time if needed, but they may not be needed as it's the same bin file  ;)

So yes if we add it all up, it is expensive on one off payments, but I've been purchasing all this stuff each time I have a busy week, so tbh haven't missed the cash  ;)

Using an aftermarket ECU was never an option for me............

1)   And most important, I want to learn this as a new skill.  I'm not getting any younger, and to maybe be able to diversify into reflashing ECU's in a few years time would be better than humping gearboxes and axles around etc :)

2)   We all know the EEC ECU's are far more capable than the aftermarket stuff, so it makes sense to get our heads around them ;)

So really even if I spend a grand, plus the def, it doesn't really matter as I'm learning all the time atm  ;D

Guess that's why I'm always skint  ;D ;D

Enough sh!te for now.........Got to go build a WRC Focus gearbox now lol.............B.F. that car goes like the clappers, road tested it yesterday  ;D  ;D

Cheers for now

Dave
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Offline REGMCI

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Ok great!
Reflash by Obd2 port is so much better!

Ok so I confirm My wish for BOB ECU no preference about Def files  ;)

And I'm ready to put 120€
Don't Scrap it, Restore it!

Ford Taunus

Offline Dave2302

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Thats great news, thanks.

We'll let this run a while, because the more folks that pledge the less it will cost us all, would be good to get another 5 on board so its only around £100 each  ;)

Like I said I'm working with a limited def file atm and once I know that is working fine we will look to getting the comprehensive EXIT def produced.

You guys really need to keep me off EBay though lol...............

Bought the Mongoose lead last night, even though I don't need it right now, it was a bargain  ;D
£118 including the postage  ;D

So now the only thing for me to pay out is the licence of $100 (around £67), to "Old" Clint so I can use it with Binary Editor Software.

Will do that once I have it all working with a J3 Add on chip first  ;)

Cheers for now,

Dave
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Offline Matt

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Been having a think on this re my post further up,

A bob would be the better ecu as you'd only need to add a function of the clutch depressed, however as Dave and my self have found out you only need to parallel up the brake pedal switch.

From what i can see you'd only need to remove 2 functions form the bob, Auto Box control and Post cat lambdas (althrough latter not essential but would save on wires). The Map is already correct so we'd only need to map it for extra performance which is the point of all this anyway.

TO make a Ruth or Other Mondeo work you'd need to add a control for the VIS or also buy an IMRC which os a faff to make that work to keep the ECU happy and find away of attaching it all up to the BOB engine, They are not the best of unit as Dave and my self found out (or cheap). Only real way would be to do what i did and strip it down and re solder the board to keep the CB in the car by the ECU then unsolder the motor and add wires, which then run to the VIS solenoid, then unsolder the spring switch on the CB and again run wires from that to a micro switch which is then somehow grafted to the BOB VIS. Tweek the base map to get it correct then map it. Rewire the EECV plug and add extra cables to a BOB loom to control the coil pack and Crank sensor as these are wired direct to the ECU. I also found running it in the scorpio the Traction control doesnt work although thats no biggie.

So if someone has bought a scopio to strip and build into a sierra/other you'd just need to swap the lot, no faffing around swapping cables. Ive looked at the spare bay loom ive got and you can rewire it to just use one plug if auto box control is taken off as there is enough spare ways in the black engine plug to add the VSS and Rev Switch (if post cats are deleted). you Dont have to add anything to a BOB ecu, just Remove functions to suit your need

BTW has anyone seen this http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Ford-Scorpio-Granada-Cosworth-BOB-24V-ECU-/160969162318?pt=UK_CarsParts_Vehicles_CarParts_SM&fits=Model%3AScorpio&hash=item257a827e4e
24v Manual Scorpio **FDS2000 Scans - Birmingham**

Offline Dave2302

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Yeah I agree BOB ECU is the way to go, that's what I'm working on now, will just have to alter Puma wiring to go back to it  :(

Don't even need to delete post cat Lambdas from BOB ECU, after a few miles they run quite happily without them connected, as they only monitor the performance of cats, and most transplants junk the cats anyway  ;)

Similair with Can Purge, Ex Pressure and EGR, if left unplugged they flag a fault code but don't go into LOS or affect the running ;)

Are you or Dave bidding on that SITE, cos it don't want all 3 of us bidding against each other, but would be worth buying to rip the bin file  ;)

Cheers Dave
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Offline Matt

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im not bidding mate, but ive asked the banger racer boys on fs that if they got any cossies they killed then can i have the ecus, pats and keys
24v Manual Scorpio **FDS2000 Scans - Birmingham**

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Oka Doka, will see what you come up with then !!

Don't forget, if the banger boys trash an engine I still need all the Intake, Fuel Rail, Water Housing etc from the V valley upwards for the other Engine I'm building up  ;)

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Just a question....

Bob in a non bob car, do I need to get involved I have a boa ecu and loom would there be any benefits?


Offline Dave2302

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Hi,

BOB on BOA ECU doesn't run as well as it would with the BOB ECU, controlling the VIS is hit and miss without the BOB ECU, rpm switch can be used for this but it is never right all the time.

The main problems with BOB ECU has always been deleting Auto Gearbox if you are running Manual, and PATS (although wiring it up and having it as a security feature is a bonus IMHO), I have all the info to do that).
Also Fords run a very mild tune on both BOA and BOB ECU's so having the abilities to up the fuelling and timing will make it pull much much better.

I'd say anyone with a BOB Engine who hasn't already bought aftermarket ECU would benefit from this, and the more that come on board, the cheaper it will be for all of us.

You don't need to buy any hardware, I have already spent around 700 on that, so all you need once we done the def file is the postage cost to me and back, each time you want it reflashed, and a small fee, (once), to register your ECU onto the software.

HTH,

Cheers

Dave

   
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Offline Dave

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Quote
Dave2302

Dave,
Hear you but its not all doom and expense  

Just a sanity check mate to check your not getting carried away!

Quote
but as we found out it is quirky on some bin reads and won't reflash ECU Chip.

Yeah it is strange what it does to the first 100 byte or so of data.

That is why I said stick to complete chip 000000 - 03FFFF downloads & we will sort it out after.

Quote
We all know the EEC ECU's are far more capable than the aftermarket stuff

True but to be honest half the things it can do you will never use or won't ever need.

Quote
Are you or Dave bidding on that SITE, cos it don't want all 3 of us bidding against each other, but would be worth buying to rip the bin file  

I will bid on it if you want & send it direct to you.


The BOB ECU is by far the sensible route simply from a hack point of view.

It's bin file is far smaller, all BOB ECU's share a very similar strategy.

Already mapped for the BOB 24v.

As said delete a few things & it's the perfect ECU for any STD BOB install by far & the most marketable!


Quote
(REGMCI)
Hi All!
I am ready to give 100€
My bob ECU is EXAM
My ST24 MT ECU is RARE (as Matt)
If I can help PM me.

REGMCI O.K mate have added you on but for 100 pounds not euro. Hope that's O.K otherwise this is gonna get complicated to keep track of.

Copy the below & add your name if your interested.
Please either 100 or 200 U.K pounds to keep things simple.

 1. Dave2302  - NO PREFERENCE                 - £200
 2. Dave         - NO PREFERENCE                 - £200
 3. Cortiworth - EXIT or whatever BOB ecu   - £200
 4. Matt         - NO PREFERENCE                 - £200
 5. T4T         - NO PREFERENCE                  - £100
 6. REGMCI   - NO PREFERENCE                  - £100
 7.
 8.
 9.
10.






Dave

Offline REGMCI

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REGMCI O.K mate have added you on but for 100 pounds not euro. Hope that's O.K otherwise this is gonna get complicated to keep track of.

 1. Dave2302  - NO PREFERENCE                 - £200
 2. Dave         - NO PREFERENCE                 - £200
 3. Cortiworth - EXIT or whatever BOB ecu   - £200
 4. Matt         - NO PREFERENCE                 - £200
 5. T4T         - NO PREFERENCE                  - £100
 6. REGMCI   - NO PREFERENCE                  - £100
 7.
 8.
 9.
10.


Yep no problem for 100£
That's why I raised to 120€ later.

So after having the new def file it will be possible for me to remap as many time as I want with "only" a Mongoose Pro link cable and a appropriate map editing software?
Don't Scrap it, Restore it!

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