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General => General Discussion => Topic started by: whiteestate on January 12, 2013, 13:23:37 PM

Title: Minker estate ?
Post by: whiteestate on January 12, 2013, 13:23:37 PM
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/TURBO-TECHNICS-MINKER-CONVERSION-1988-SIERRA-ESTATE-288BHP-/181060928581?pt=Automobiles_UK&hash=item2a28128445

Is this true there were estate conversions made ?
Title: Re: Minker estate ?
Post by: littlegems4x4 on January 12, 2013, 13:42:53 PM
No no no, that is NOT a Minker engine despite what he says :rolleyes:

That is a standard tt conversion using the DCU and extra injectors, the Minker has a stand alone ECU and doesn't use the extra injectors ;)
Title: Re: Minker estate ?
Post by: TwinTurbo on January 12, 2013, 19:59:41 PM
What a plank,

Minkers had considerably more power, torque and exclusivity.

It's a nice looking car but he's asking way way too much!

TT
Title: Re: Minker estate ?
Post by: TwinTurbo on January 12, 2013, 20:04:23 PM
Don't belive the mileage either , it's too modified.

TT
Title: Re: Minker estate ?
Post by: TwinTurbo on January 12, 2013, 20:07:45 PM
see if we get a response

"Can you confirm the specification as a Minker should have just 6 injectors , Zytec Ecu, Compression struts on the suspension etc. Which Diffs are in it?  Also is the mileage backed up by a history file including serivce records and old MOT's

Cheers

Rob"
Title: Re: Minker estate ?
Post by: whiteestate on January 12, 2013, 23:45:41 PM
Those tinted windows look awful too ! Why do that i will never understand i hate tints !
Looking at the prices the Minkers were they were $$$.
Title: Re: Minker estate ?
Post by: Dave on January 13, 2013, 23:16:28 PM

It looks like a TT225 to me with the AFM mod & an adjustable fuel reg.

No where near a Minker spec but could be a 225 with a 280 chip, the boost turned up, fuel pressure around 80psi & a quick prayer before the dyno run cause that is what it would need to hit 280bhp!

Don't look like one of Alan's to me either.

How much!!!!  :police:
Title: Re: Minker estate ?
Post by: whiteestate on January 14, 2013, 18:38:45 PM
Quote from: TwinTurbo on January 12, 2013, 20:07:45 PM
see if we get a response

"Can you confirm the specification as a Minker should have just 6 injectors , Zytec Ecu, Compression struts on the suspension etc. Which Diffs are in it?  Also is the mileage backed up by a history file including serivce records and old MOT's

Cheers

Rob"


Any response yet ?
Nearly 10 grand thats a mint sapphire cosworth or basic 3dr money is that ! No one would be stupid enough to buy it for that surely ?
Title: Re: Minker estate ?
Post by: Minker Estate on January 15, 2013, 15:29:38 PM
Hi Guys,

Glad you all have something to say about the car for sale ;)

Ok, the info on the car is this.

The guy that commisioned the build was a chap called Matt Allsop (who i have just come off of the phone to).

Unknown to me Matt was aware that the car was on Ebay as he had been FBooked about it.

Matt bought the Minker conversion kit from Turbo Technics  (which is the information i was given when i purchased the car).

Alan Jeffrey was indeed the builder of the engine.

Alan was supplied with a 2.8l block and bored it to 2.9litres apologies to anyone that was under the impression that it was a Cossie 2.9 jobbie :-[

I do have a large folder of reciepts and have been informed by Matt that at least three of the invoices are from Alan Jeffrey.

Matt also stated that a conservative estimate of the cars total build costs where around the 35K mark.

The reason for the low milage is that Matt never really drove the car and since i have owned it, it has just sat around in my collection.

All in all the car was purchased as a Minker Conversion, not an original factory car which is in the Ebay advert right at the top of the listing.

Taken from the Minker web page...

For the less extrovert, the 280bhp conversion provides much the same entertainment for a more modest £8700 on top of the price of the base car. Performance naturally falls short of the Minker's sub-5 seconds to 60 and sub-14 second quarter mile, but 5.4 and 14.2 are nothing to be ashamed of. Like the Minker, it is governed to 150mph, though this electronic limiter of our test car was set just below this, at 147mph. The joy is that apart from its Bottger alloys anf fat tyres, the 280 looks rep-Sierra standard.

The base car (the estate) was already owned by the original builder.

The dyno sheets show that the car produces approx 288BHP at the flywheel :mellow:

Many thanks for all your comments regarding 'Minker's' differences but please be aware that this is not an original factory build Minker.

Regards...Minker Estate ;D
Title: Re: Minker estate ?
Post by: littlegems4x4 on January 15, 2013, 18:46:01 PM
It's not a Minker spec engine ;) I don't think it can be 280 spec either looking at the extra injector piping, those fibre fittings don't take the fuel pressure needed, I'm confused lol!

I'm also not sure about the 2.8 bored out to 2.9 bit.......... I'm not sure that's possible. I didn't think 2.9 heads fitted a 2.8 :unsure:
Title: Re: Minker estate ?
Post by: JFB Tech on January 15, 2013, 19:22:04 PM
The engine itself may be Minker spec, can't tell without looking at all the receipts.  It's certainly not running the Minker management though as they used a Zytek or Turbo Technics Zytek copy ECU and ran 6 larger injectors rather than the standard ones plus a pair of extra ones mounted on the throttle body.  The extra injectors on the basic 225 kit were Bosch ones with built in stub hoses just like in the engine pics for this estate.  The 280 conversion used different injectors and a billet fuel rail for them.
Title: Re: Minker estate ?
Post by: capri v8 driver on January 15, 2013, 19:25:17 PM
Quote from: Minker Estate on January 15, 2013, 15:29:38 PM
Hi Guys,

Glad you all have something to say about the car for sale ;)

Ok, the info on the car is this.

The guy that commisioned the build was a chap called Matt Allsop (who i have just come off of the phone to).

Unknown to me Matt was aware that the car was on Ebay as he had been FBooked about it.

Matt bought the Minker conversion kit from Turbo Technics  (which is the information i was given when i purchased the car).

Alan Jeffrey was indeed the builder of the engine.

Alan was supplied with a 2.8l block and bored it to 2.9litres apologies to anyone that was under the impression that it was a Cossie 2.9 jobbie :-[

Regards...Minker Estate ;D


Looking at the pictures in the ad, its a 2.9 block for me, not a 2.8 block bored to 2.9.

The valve covers, the efi intake and the 3 ports exhaust manifolds is 2.9. The 2.8 had a different intake and 2 port exhaust manifolds.

(http://i.ebayimg.com/t/TURBO-TECHNICS-MINKER-CONVERSION-1988-SIERRA-ESTATE-288BHP-/00/s/MTIwMFgxNjAw/$(KGrHqZHJE0FDdWN,lQ,BQ8Vy2f8NQ~~60_58.JPG)

(http://i.ebayimg.com/t/TURBO-TECHNICS-MINKER-CONVERSION-1988-SIERRA-ESTATE-288BHP-/00/s/MTIwMFgxNjAw/$T2eC16FHJGQE9noMZIvPBQ8VywTUqg~~60_58.JPG)
Title: Re: Minker estate ?
Post by: littlegems4x4 on January 15, 2013, 19:37:58 PM
Quote from: JFB Tech on January 15, 2013, 19:22:04 PM
The engine itself may be Minker spec, can't tell without looking at all the receipts. 


All I was thinking there was that if the car had been done in 1988 or thereabouts it couldn't be a Minker spec engine as they use the '92 heads and block..............
Title: Re: Minker estate ?
Post by: Dave on January 15, 2013, 22:25:47 PM
QuoteAll I was thinking there was that if the car had been done in 1988 or thereabouts it couldn't be a Minker spec engine as they use the '92 heads and block...........


What you on about then??? :rolleyes:



It's nice to see you on here Minker Estate & it's a nice car you have but I am sorry to say someone at some stage has misled you.

I can not see one single part from a Minker conversion in your engine bay.

Firstly you have the original AFM meters the same as a STD car, a Minker does not use them as the Minker ECU is not capable of using them.

Second you have the two extra injectors in the throttle exactly the same as only fitted to the TT225 kits.
A Minker does not have them extra injectors or any in that location!

Third you can see the add on map sensor on the drivers wing the same as the TT225 - TT280 kits had.
Minkers has the map sensor built into the ECU inside the car.

Fourth you have no ignition amplifier to fire the coil the same as the TT225 - TT280 kits.
Minkers had a great big ignition amp by the battery, they won't run with out it.

Fifth Minkers used a different radiator, intercooler & pipe work to what you have fitted but as you say that is no prove it is not a Minker but does make it less likely.

Sixith There is no way that is a 2.8 block!

So that engine is defiantly not running a Minker ignition system or fuelling or ECU or mapping.

If you took a better picture of the turbo's or tell me the TT code off the plates if fitted I could tell you if they are Minker spec or not.

Look behind the cover on the dash & I bet you see a STD Ford ECU sitting there.
Look around by the accelerator pedal area & you will find the DCU box as fitted to TT225 - TT280's that might have something written on it to show what kit it is.

After all that seriously ask yourself if it has the four thousand pound or so engine mods inside the engine you can not see.
They was never supplied as a kit, the engine had to be shipped to TT for them to do the work or Alan etc.


If still you want proof phone Alan Jeffrey & say you think you have a Minker.

He will say does it have injectors in the throttle, you will say yes & he will say then it's not a Minker.


Non of the cars Alan did where Minkers, they had Minker parts fitted & made Minker power but only had half the mods TT did to be able to call their cars Minkers.

Alan did do an Estate with a few proper Minker parts by the way. Now gone to car heaven.

Sorry if this all seems a bit harsh but anyone who knows these cars can see it looks like a base TT225 2.9 V6 Turbo Technics kit.







Title: Re: Minker estate ?
Post by: littlegems4x4 on January 16, 2013, 00:47:02 AM
Quote from: Dave on January 15, 2013, 22:25:47 PM
QuoteAll I was thinking there was that if the car had been done in 1988 or thereabouts it couldn't be a Minker spec engine as they use the '92 heads and block...........


What you on about then??? :rolleyes:



Oh, have I got the wrong end of the stick there :unsure:
Title: Re: Minker estate ?
Post by: Dave on January 16, 2013, 05:00:29 AM
Yes Toby you have, Minker project started in 1987.  ;D

Geoff went himself to Germany & got one of the very first 2.9 engines built straight off the production line.

A few weeks later that became MNK001.

Maybe done before a 2.9 was ever fitted to a production Sierra.

Not sure?
Title: Re: Minker estate ?
Post by: littlegems4x4 on January 16, 2013, 15:25:34 PM
Ooooops, I thought that because we used the '92 heads for my conversion that must have been what TT used.... DOH :laugh:
Title: Re: Minker estate ?
Post by: Minker Estate on January 16, 2013, 16:02:16 PM
Cheers for the replies guys especially Dave ;D

After speaking to another of the former owners more information has been uncovered as he spoke to Alan Jeffrey some time ago about the spec of the engine.

Alan simply replied that it was a Minker conversion and that the original customer asked for the best of the best to go along with the engine build.

I think this may explain why it has the different injectors on the throttle body as well as the other differences that you have pointed out.

The discussion also broached the subject of replacing the ECU on the car which has another ECU piggy backed to run the two extra injectors with a Motec system which seemed to be a better idea.

All in all the information that has been given by more than one former owner that has spoken to Alan about the build of the engine has confirmed that this does indeed have all internal Minker mods/parts.

As to the turbos, they are T2 units as used on a Lotus Carlton (although these were new) as per Alan recommended. This was a pretty much no expense spared build requested by Matt Allsop.

In regards to Matt, his Father has VERY recently passed away so could i ask people to please not bug the bloke about this for the forseeable future.

If you do wish to have a closer look at the motor please do not hesitate to pick up the phone (number is on the listing/link at top of page) and give me a call.

If any of you guys know personally/are in touch with Alan Jeffrey, why not give him a call to confirm what actually went into this build. If any of the info is different please feel free to post it up so there is complete clarification.

Regards...Minker Estate ;)
Title: Re: Minker estate ?
Post by: TwinTurbo on January 16, 2013, 16:39:58 PM
I guess what your saying is that the engine block, heads and moving internals are to Minker spec ( Which Alan will have records for against the Engine Number) but the rest is fairly stock Turbo Technics build.

TT
Title: Re: Minker estate ?
Post by: Minker Estate on January 16, 2013, 16:48:41 PM
Got wood ;D :P ;D ;)

Minker Estate ;D
Title: Re: Minker estate ?
Post by: littlegems4x4 on January 16, 2013, 18:12:12 PM
I wonder why you'd go to all the expense of doing the Minker internals just to run a standard TT kit on it, very odd..............

Each to their own though!
Title: Re: Minker estate ?
Post by: Dave on January 16, 2013, 22:11:15 PM
This is getting interesting now.

So your saying it has a Motec ECU plus the TT DCU stuff. (A silver metal box that controls them two extra injectors on the throttle)

O.K that makes a bit more sense to me.

It sounds like that Alan was copying his race car build now.

The Lotus Charlton turbo's make sense too but they are not T2's if that is true they will be T25's.

If this is all correct then indeed I would expect the pistons & heads to be Minker spec.

Only thing now is it should have made a lot more power than 288 bhp as that's a 400hp+ spec!
Then there is another problem as the Air Flow Meters look STD 2.9 12v & firstly why would you use them as they are a bad design hence not used anymore but also they can't measure 200bhp x 2 worth of air flow.


It has very little in common with a Minker.  Maybe the pistons plus the heads & that is it!
A TT280 uses the same pistons & heads but are not quite as well finished for example.

So it is no Minker but again no STD TT car either it is something special.


Interesting, now I have lots of questions. I will talk to Alan about the car. :unsure:


If you want to sell that car you need to re-do that description as 99% of people will look at it & think it's just a base TT225 conversion with an owner who thinks he has something special. No offence intended!


Do you have pictures of the side of the engine, turbo's, main injectors & maybe the Motec so I can see the differences & for my records ;)

Dyno sheet would be nice to see too.



Title: Re: Minker estate ?
Post by: TwinTurbo on January 16, 2013, 23:32:46 PM
I read it that there was a discussion about a Motec ECU, not that it had necessarily happened.

TT

Title: Re: Minker estate ?
Post by: Dave on January 16, 2013, 23:46:01 PM
Well I just asked Alan to look at it & he says this:

"Nope, don't know it! It's possible that we might have supplied some engine parts, but I most certainly haven't worked on that car as it stands."


So now thinking it's a TT225 again with the boost turned up ;D
Title: Re: Minker estate ?
Post by: Marcus 4x4 on January 17, 2013, 04:23:40 AM
So in essence Mr 'Minker Estate' has been fobbed a big one and fell for it! And the car is probably not even worth a 1/4 of the asking price?  Oops
Title: Re: Minker estate ?
Post by: TimoXr4i on January 17, 2013, 16:38:10 PM
Still, it is a nice car to see. In two weeks i get me a green, very tight estate, just looks new, only its just a 2.0 dohc, but it is just a great looking car.

A sierra estate 4x4 with a 2.9 goes for about 2k in euros, so if it sells for 5k it would be a nice price,it has good parts, it has the power,mit has the leathers, but i cant imagine it goes for about 3 times that in euros!
Title: Re: Minker estate ?
Post by: Isaac005 on January 17, 2013, 22:43:47 PM
Quote from: Dave on January 16, 2013, 23:46:01 PM
Well I just asked Alan to look at it & he says this:

"Nope, don't know it! It's possible that we might have supplied some engine parts, but I most certainly haven't worked on that car as it stands."


So now thinking it's a TT225 again with the boost turned up ;D



Oh no gutted that is really bad! So what is he going to do now?
Title: Re: Minker estate ?
Post by: capri v8 driver on January 18, 2013, 08:24:58 AM
Its still a nice estate, 4x4 with a 2.9 turbo engine, even if its a tt225 with the boost turned up and these kind of estates dont show up very often.

As for the asking price of £9,495.00, its high, but think what it would cost to build a estate from scratch to these specs.
Title: Re: Minker estate ?
Post by: Lemon-Ade on January 18, 2013, 10:18:04 AM
I agree Paul, I haven't seen a nicer example tbh its pretty unique so what do you compare it's price against.
Title: Re: Minker estate ?
Post by: littlegems4x4 on January 18, 2013, 14:27:12 PM
I've seen it in the flesh a couple of times, it was around the show seen a couple of years ago, for sale at Classic Ford iirc. It's very smart, just not sure it's worth that amount.............

If you consider that genuine Minkers sell for less than 1/2 that asking price it just seems a little high!
Title: Re: Minker estate ?
Post by: Grey on January 18, 2013, 14:57:30 PM
It's nicer than a Sierra Cosworth, more HP than a Cosworth, is more practical than a cosworth, have the same durability as a cosworth, is built with genuine parts and cost lesser than a equal Cosworth. Isn't it strange that people think the price is way to high? Don't know what you can but a mint cosworth or TT V6 over there but in Sweden they are not lesser than £10000...
Title: Re: Minker estate ?
Post by: TimoXr4i on January 18, 2013, 15:32:05 PM
You can get an mk1 cossie for £10000 overhere, about 15k in euros i think, regular cossie sedans go from anywhere from 7500 till 10000 euros, but ive seen mint ones go for 5500 euros, the dutch arent willing to pay much for anything :wacko:
Title: Re: Minker estate ?
Post by: capri v8 driver on January 18, 2013, 19:21:16 PM
Quote from: TimoXr4i on January 18, 2013, 15:32:05 PM
the dutch arent willing to pay much for anything :wacko:


And you forgot to mention that they want top money for there stuff.

Thats why i hardly do any advertising on dutch sites and buy most of my car related parts outsite of the netherlands.

By Grey:

QuoteInsert Quote

It's nicer than a Sierra Cosworth, more HP than a Cosworth, is more practical than a cosworth, have the same durability as a cosworth, is built with genuine parts and cost lesser than a equal Cosworth. Isn't it strange that people think the price is way to high?


By Littlegems4x4:

QuoteIt's very smart, just not sure it's worth that amount.............

If you consider that genuine Minkers sell for less than 1/2 that asking price it just seems a little high!


It may not being build by Minker, its still got all the minker engine parts and a lot more than extras, that a minker doenst have. Like i said before, if you would build a exact copy of that car, it would cost a lot more money, that is what most people dont see or understand. Its almost like i see some dutch buyer mentality here.

As for Minkerestate, i would change the text of the ad, since its never build by minker. Be honest about the car. If you dont need to sell it, dont sell it, but keep it. The car market, certainly for these kind of cars, is bad.
Title: Re: Minker estate ?
Post by: TimoXr4i on January 18, 2013, 20:30:55 PM
Hi paul, your so tru, but, i have done a few very good buys, paid 400 quid for a sapphire cossiebodykit, and it was just perfect, frontbumper, rear, skirts, all the strips and covers. Also, i managed to find me a cossie mk1 bonnet, just across the marsdiep, and for a lot less than ebay prices in the uk. And my last piece of pure luck, found a rs500 poly bumper in belgium, at a dutchman, and i canpickit up... For free!

Scrapped a dozen sierras forthe dirt track, never asked more than 50 euros for parts (engine or box), the
Loose parts just for a few quids, didnt earn much money, but i broke even :wacko:

I dnt have much special parts laying around, so not much for sale, so no problems with that...
Title: Re: Minker estate ?
Post by: TwinTurbo on January 19, 2013, 09:00:19 AM
Quote from: Grey on January 18, 2013, 14:57:30 PM
It's nicer than a Sierra Cosworth, more HP than a Cosworth, is more practical than a cosworth, have the same durability as a cosworth, is built with genuine parts and cost lesser than a equal Cosworth. Isn't it strange that people think the price is way to high? Don't know what you can but a mint cosworth or TT V6 over there but in Sweden they are not lesser than £10000...


The big problem is that there is no proof to any of the claims about the engine build even to the point that the well known expert who is claimed to have built it has no record of it.

So in essence one has to assume that it is a standard TT ( or worse ) 225 engine and if it is dyno'd at 288 then the boost has been turned up to get that figure.

Given that you then have to set it agains the known markers.

A very clean TT estate sold for circa £2k in the Autumn. It was a standard car, so if you add a couple of £K for wheels, bodykit and extas then that's only £4K

Minkers don't change hands often, and I think £5K was about the limit so far.


TT's can't be compared with Cosworths as there is a Massive market for the latter and a very select market for the former. That will never change.



TT
Title: Re: Minker estate ?
Post by: Dave on January 19, 2013, 23:44:21 PM
If your serious about selling it Minker Estate you need to redo the listing.

Anybody willing to spend that kind of money on an old Sierra will do their home work & there is so many errors in the listing it will ring alarm bells & scare them off!

What ever you have been told by others appears to be very misleading at best.

Firstly it is not a Minker or a copy of one or an Alan special etc.

Nothing you have said, or any of the pictures shows anything Minker related.

A Minker is not just an engine but a complete car upgrade. Engine, brakes, suspension etc etc.
There was 9 built yes but that's it, the 6 others is total rubbish.

Alan never built a Minker spec car, what he built was two proper Minker spec engines that is all.
One engine was for a guy called Gengis that has since been rebuilt again into a 500hp motor.
The other was for another guy I know & fitted to a Blue car that got smashed up.
Engine is now fitted to this, funny enough on eBay right now, Item 170975806674

That was it, other engines where built that used parts of the Minker engine but not the complete spec as per the TT build folder that Alan did have but has been lost!

Alan can confirm if you call him.

He says he has never seen that car before by the way as I asked him to look at the listing.

What I think is fitted to your car is a basic TT conversion. A TT225 (F73)

A big difference!

TT 2.9 V6 XR4x4 Prices @ 1991. Does not include VAT

TT225                   = Fitted    £3245
TT250 Performance    = Fitted    £6950
TT280 Full House      = Fitted    £8700
Minker 323               = Fitted  £16,000 / New Car £34,500
Minker K1                 = Fitted £ 19,500 / New Car £37,500

Why I say that is because the injectors in your throttle body was only used on the lowest powered kit.

The TT250 & TT280 used completely different injectors as they needed more fuel.

There was a number of Estate TT225's done so again you need to amend that.


It's still a nice car, I like it & as you can tell a few on here do to however that listing will put a lot off!


Alan re-built an XR4x4 & turboed it for someone last year to a high spec (again not Minker before someone says it!)
The build was £15,000 so that just proves there is people out there willing to pay good money for the right Sierra V6!  ;D

It's simple, a car is worth what someone is willing to pay.





Title: Re: Minker estate ?
Post by: yorevol on January 20, 2013, 14:50:17 PM
i was going to mention the two door sapphire on ebay, looks nice but too much work for me at the moment. good to know it is a minker engine though.
Title: Re: Minker estate ?
Post by: Minker Estate on January 23, 2013, 12:25:54 PM
Hi guys,

I've spoken to the original owner and have found out the complete story on the build of the car.

Alan Jeffrey did build the engine and i have receipts for this.

I'll try and get all the info and scans etc posted ASAP.

Regards...Minker Estate ;D
Title: Re: Minker estate ?
Post by: littlegems4x4 on February 14, 2013, 11:23:15 AM
Relisted.......

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/2007-TURBO-TECHNICS-CONVERSION-1988-SIERRA-ESTATE-300-HP-AWD-/181080112586
Title: Re: Minker estate ?
Post by: Dave on February 15, 2013, 12:39:47 PM
Quote from: littlegems4x4 on February 14, 2013, 11:23:15 AM
Relisted.......
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/2007-TURBO-TECHNICS-CONVERSION-1988-SIERRA-ESTATE-300-HP-AWD-/181080112586


That's better, it had nothing Minker related.

"HELP AND ADVISE FROM THE MODERATORS AND MEMBERS OF THE XROC"

Whats that then? Didn't see a disscussion about it!

If the receipts are there for the work then fair enough.


Alan said he had not seen the car before but that don't mean he didn't supply the parts that must have been fitted by someone else.
Or maybe he put the engine together but never fitted it or was fitted to something else.

The TT225 fueling/ignition/STD ECU bodge is of major concern & should be replaced straight away by the next owner.
It is at the max it can do & the car would probably gain 50 bhp at the same boost by simply fitting some proper management with a decent map.


Quote from: yorevol on January 20, 2013, 14:50:17 PM
i was going to mention the two door sapphire on ebay, looks nice but too much work for me at the moment. good to know it is a minker engine though.


Yeah proper Minker turbo's, you can tell by the adapter fitted to the front compressor's, also it had a proper Minker TT ECU that Alan got made by the same guy that did them for TT.
Runs the same map Gengis did & the engine was built the same time as Gengis's engine.