FordPower

General => Welcome => Topic started by: Grey on November 22, 2012, 15:29:04 PM

Title: New Guy.
Post by: Grey on November 22, 2012, 15:29:04 PM
(http://sphotos-d.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash3/21923_4515821026011_40489303_n.jpg)
Hi there, Grey aka Joakim from Sweden here.
Through life i have been a Ford freak and have owned a few cool Sierras, most 2.9ers.
Last summer i bought the very rare (for Sweden it is) Pinto Carburetter P100 which I'm about to fix up and make a little more rare. :)
(http://sphotos-d.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc7/402829_4104373460079_1537418048_n.jpg)

I have bought a Sierra GT that will help the interior, but i have already put in the Sierra Cosworth Recaro seats.
(http://sphotos-d.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash3/539448_4224153014493_1330298045_n.jpg)

"Real" Cosworth engine. ;D
(http://i45.tinypic.com/317bpk5.jpg")

And a Momo steering wheel.
(http://sphotos-b.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-prn1/543178_4259232371455_1311836539_n.jpg)


I also have this old bagger, maybe it is the most powerful 2.9er turbo in the world with stock bottom. 535BHP, 765NM. Not a sierra though! ;)
(http://pics.gzracing.se/pics/granadan/Del9/ozfutura2.jpg)

(http://pics.gzracing.se/pics/granadan/Del8/motorutrymme.jpg)

Title: Re: New Guy.
Post by: Leebay on November 22, 2012, 15:43:56 PM
Welcome to FordPower Joakim.

Nice pair of Fords you have there, bet that Cortina goes well!!!!  ;D
Title: Re: New Guy.
Post by: Grey on November 22, 2012, 15:51:34 PM
Welcome to FordPower Joakim.

Nice pair of Fords you have there, bet that Cortina goes well!!!!  ;D

Hehe, well since its a granny its a bit slower but yeah, it kicks you in the back. :)
Title: Re: New Guy.
Post by: Lemon-Ade on November 22, 2012, 15:54:41 PM
Hello Grey,

I'm glad you joined here mate I spoke to you on the Fsoc site ade500, lovely pair and an awesome engine you have there.

Cheers Ade
Title: Re: New Guy.
Post by: Grey on November 22, 2012, 17:07:35 PM
Hello Grey,

I'm glad you joined here mate I spoke to you on the Fsoc site ade500, lovely pair and an awesome engine you have there.

Cheers Ade

Thanks for the link mate, seams like I'm going to find some nice 2.9ers here. :)
You didn't have a bad setup either.   :mellow:
Title: Re: New Guy.
Post by: mk2 cossie on November 22, 2012, 17:29:21 PM
welcome along  ;D
That turbo doesnt look big enough in the Granada engine bay  :o

Good to see another Granada driver on here  :mellow:
Title: Re: New Guy.
Post by: Grey on November 22, 2012, 17:41:33 PM
welcome along  ;D
That turbo doesnt look big enough in the Granada engine bay  :o

Good to see another Granada driver on here  :mellow:

Guess that "small" GT40 could be exchanged for something bigger. For now it´s maxed out, but so is the fuel pump and injectors too. Well, I'll see what I will do with the old bagger. Next step cost so much money...  :rolleyes:
Title: Re: New Guy.
Post by: Lemon-Ade on November 22, 2012, 19:02:12 PM
I thought you would like it mate  ;D cheers there is a new engine well under way  :mellow:
Title: Re: New Guy.
Post by: Dave on November 22, 2012, 22:23:36 PM

Hi & welcome to FordPower ;D

Quote
535BHP, 765NM

Yes I think you do have the most powerful 2.9 12V ever!

I heard about your results some time ago now, well done! :mellow:
Title: Re: New Guy.
Post by: Grey on November 22, 2012, 22:30:46 PM

Hi & welcome to FordPower ;D

Quote
535BHP, 765NM

Yes I think you do have the most powerful 2.9 12V ever!

I heard about your results some time ago now, well done! :mellow:
Hi and thanks mate.

Someone should have got some more power with better parts? The setup i use is basic!  ;)
Anyways, you probably saw it when it was in the Skogenracing Capri, now we transfered it into the Skogenracing Granny!  :ph34r:
Heavier but it's my favorite Ford so i guess it's better for me.
Title: Re: New Guy.
Post by: Dave on November 22, 2012, 22:36:10 PM
Yes when it was in the Capri!

I have dyno plots but not the 535bhp run.

Shows what the old 12v can do.

I think the E85 plays a big part in the results & how your able to push the stock parts.

Never used it or seen test data on it, so can't really comment :unsure:
Title: Re: New Guy.
Post by: Grey on November 23, 2012, 08:01:40 AM
Yes when it was in the Capri!

I have dyno plots but not the 535bhp run.

Shows what the old 12v can do.

I think the E85 plays a big part in the results & how your able to push the stock parts.

Never used it or seen test data on it, so can't really comment :unsure:

There is the 535BHP run. 471WHP.

Most problems we found with the 2.9er so far is the heating problems at cylinder 2 and the head gaskets. Because of the heat the second cylinder piston ring land breaks. This is no problem when heat is controlled but when driving with over 100 degrees Celsius it breaks very fast. Else, it's a great machine! :)

E85 is pretty much 85% Alcohol and 15% Petrol. Cook some Alcohol @ home and mix it yourself, it is cheaper than any race fuel and works GREAT. Good for environment too!  ;D

Title: Re: New Guy.
Post by: Dave on November 23, 2012, 10:16:32 AM
Yeah no different in the U.K.
Tuners here have built loads of turboed 2.9's.
However this is mostly 25 year old technology so the fueling, mapping & even the turbo install is not as good as it can be.

So these cars break STD pistons & lift heads with STD bolts at around 250bhp.

E85 the little I know about it is you need more of it for the same power, so you have increased exhaust flow that helps spool that big turbo, it's flash point is a lot higher so your able to run higher compression & boost levels plus overall engine temps are lower.

Combine that with some good mapping, low back pressure, high lift cam & you have achieved some great results!
Title: Re: New Guy.
Post by: Grey on November 23, 2012, 11:43:29 AM
Yeah no different in the U.K.
Tuners here have built loads of turboed 2.9's.
However this is mostly 25 year old technology so the fueling, mapping & even the turbo install is not as good as it can be.

So these cars break STD pistons & lift heads with STD bolts at around 250bhp.

E85 the little I know about it is you need more of it for the same power, so you have increased exhaust flow that helps spool that big turbo, it's flash point is a lot higher so your able to run higher compression & boost levels plus overall engine temps are lower.

Combine that with some good mapping, low back pressure, high lift cam & you have achieved some great results!

You are right on the spot, except for one thing. E85 makes more power, so just to change fuel we get a boost from around 400 to 450 BHP. Cheep tuning. :) You have to add 30-35% more fuel but it costs lesser than 2/3 of petrol.

Most of you guys in UK is stuck with the thoughts of going with two small turbos instead of one big one. There is actually no point at all to go small because the power goes up with a bigger turbo (due to lesser heat) and it spools from 3K RPM anyways. My 2.9er makes:
100WHP @ 3300RPM
200WHP @ 3900RPM
400WHP @ 4400RPM
471WHP @ 5600RPM

Big turbos make people happy!  :ph34r:

Title: Re: New Guy.
Post by: Lemon-Ade on November 23, 2012, 16:48:07 PM
I for one would love to see some plots for it Grey, and I think your going to have to share you home brewing secrets with us for the E85 . We can enjoy ourselves a bit more with cheap fuel, more money for tyres lol
Title: Re: New Guy.
Post by: Dave on November 23, 2012, 17:15:29 PM
Most of you guys in UK is stuck with the thoughts of going with two small turbos instead of one big one. There is actually no point at all to go small because the power goes up with a bigger turbo (due to lesser heat) and it spools from 3K RPM anyways.

I would agree that 99% of the 12V 2.9er's in the U.K run turbo's too small that hold the engine back.
Really sad to see people pump lots of money into the cars for a few horses in gains because they don't change the turbo's.

No wonder most give up & move onto Jap stuff LOL!

Have to dis-agree with bigger is better mate, it has to be matched to the engine & twin turbo's work better for a V engine than a single turbo.

Otherwise you waste a lot of energy you could use to spool the turbo's.

I have a dyno plot of your engine when it was running 400bhp.

At the time I looked at a number of engines around the 400 - 500hp mark, looked at what worked & what didn't then came up with a spec for mine. The idea was to achieve the best of both worlds.
I didn't want to loose the 12v's low down torquey character & it had to run on normal 95 ron fuel.

Blue is a typical old Turbo Technics engine with the little T2's
Red is my engine with GT2252's
Black is yours when in the Capri at 15psi (i think, never found out for sure)

You can see you loose a lot of low end power.

(http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b228/DavidHoward/Minker/15PSIComparison.jpg)


However I ran into problems around 450bhp, blew a hole in the gasket & starting to hit high back pressure readings, so will never match your horse power figure as it would need the exhaust re-done plus probably bigger turbo's etc.

Yours is still top of the pile LOL!

I want people to push these 12v's as it's cheap reliable power & such an underrated engine I think.

How to build the engine is here but is far from complete as until I finishing testing it I can't finish it.

http://www.fordpower.org.uk/forum2/index.php/topic,8629.0.html (http://www.fordpower.org.uk/forum2/index.php/topic,8629.0.html)



Title: Re: New Guy.
Post by: Grey on November 25, 2012, 02:19:14 AM
I for one would love to see some plots for it Grey, and I think your going to have to share you home brewing secrets with us for the E85 . We can enjoy ourselves a bit more with cheap fuel, more money for tyres lol

Here you go:
(http://photos-b.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc6/285782_2068479484002_1605280786_1997437_6010920_n.jpg)

It says flywheel hp but it´s not. It's wheel hub HP, so 471,2WHP.

Haha, so you want to know how to start an alcohol brewery! :)
Well, here you go: http://www.wikihow.com/Make-Alcohol-from-Common-Table-Sugar
Not sure that it legal though, in Sweden it's not but hey, from the land of the vikings, we brew mead to ourself and go to the petrol station for alcohol (E85) to our cars! :)

Dave, please add the dyno to your comparison chart. Could be interesting to see since it makes 765nm (565lbft) of torque but spools like the chart you have there (black line of course).

Well, you are true, big turbos isn't always best but in easy power and durability it's always better to choose a bigger turbo instead of a small one. The standard recipe we use for a durable engine with lots of power from 3500rpm is the following:

Total cost of around £1500

We build so that the turbo uses pulse split, important for good spool.
We use the right exhaust manifold to put on the left side, build some pipes and place the turbo on the right side.
This is one type, but often we don't even make an new one on the right side, we just take the original, goes around the oil filter and back.
(http://www1.garaget.org/archive/12/11774/100280/100280-943933.jpg)

This one is major piping.  ;)
(http://www.skogenracing.org/bilar/mikael/sierra-kombi/large_249413-2348641.jpg)

We also build so that the oil return goes to the valve cover and final often looks like this. (T3/04 china turbo on the first engine bay, worked simliar to a HX35 due to bad spooling and low boost. We run that engine for a 24h race and only problem was the oil heating.)
(http://www1.garaget.org/archive/3/2216/292306/292306-2756492.jpg)
(http://www1.garaget.org/archive/3/2216/292306/292306-2756493.jpg)

(http://www1.garaget.org/archive/12/11774/100280/100280-943927.jpg)
(http://www1.garaget.org/archive/12/11774/100280/100280-943921.jpg)

(http://www.skogenracing.org/bilar/mikael/sierra-kombi/large_249413-2348644.jpg)
(http://www.skogenracing.org/bilar/mikael/sierra-kombi/large_249413-2348643.jpg)
(http://www.skogenracing.org/bilar/mikael/sierra-kombi/large_249413-2348642.jpg)


With this setup you will get at least 367BHP and 553nm @ 1.05 bar on petrol. The Megasquirt map for that power is very dirty so 15-20hp more should be possible.
Durability is extreme, 3 years of pounding and the only thing that have broken is the MT75.  ;)
Title: Re: New Guy.
Post by: T4T on November 25, 2012, 09:08:51 AM
Hi and welcome

Some very cool cars you guys are building over there  :mellow:

Matt
Title: Re: New Guy.
Post by: Dave on November 25, 2012, 11:12:50 AM
Quote
Dave, please add the dyno to your comparison chart

Cheers will do tonight.

Quote
easy power and durability it's always better to choose a bigger turbo instead of a small one

Yeah agree with that.
The little T2's if tracked only last 5 - 10K before they need rebuilding.
Probably got something to do with the 1100 degree c & the + 20psi back pressure they run at 300bhp LOL!

Quote
We also build so that the oil return goes to the valve cover

Interesting I have never come across that before, a mate of mine on here has done that with his 24V 2.9 & the turbo is smoking. I have said he needs to monitor the pressures inside the valve cover as I think it's restricting the oil return.

So you have had no problems then with this set-up???

Quote
Total cost of around £1500

My engine would cost double that to copy & that's if you built it yourself.

Quote
Durability is extreme, 3 years of pounding and the only thing that have broken is the MT75.

So that's on normal petrol & it's basically a STD engine.

What oil you using??

That is amazing how you have been able to push the stock pistons!  :o



Title: Re: New Guy.
Post by: Lemon-Ade on November 25, 2012, 19:48:01 PM
I think that's e85 Dave, so on morrisons finest it would be 50hp odd down as Grey said above at 400hp  it gains 50 hp so maybe more at 500hp then?

Worth doing with E85 and without plots as its not a  like for like comparison really?

Grey the E85 looks very interesting we are way behind in the uk , they love it in the states too....... That power for £1500 is awesome 535hp to £ 1500 = £2.80 per hp well done Grey.

Title: Re: New Guy.
Post by: Dave on November 25, 2012, 22:21:22 PM
I think Grey is talking about what is a STD Turbo conversion for them Ade.

If I have it right they run on petrol make about 370 bhp on 1 bar & are basically a STD engine with a turbo bolted to it.
They cost £1500 to build. A 200+ bhp power increase is well worth £1500 LOL!

I followed Grey's engine build, he has a Kent cam kit in it & 1500 pounds worth of turbo bolted to it LOL!
Probably close to a 3K build.


Well here you go.
It looks like you allow 14% for the transmission so I corrected your figures for the flywheel.

(http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b228/DavidHoward/Minker/Stealth23psiComparison.jpg)


I included my first & only run at 23 psi.
On the 2nd run I added fuel & ignition, at 5400rpm the gasket fire ring blew!
So is unfinished but I doubt it will make more than 500 bhp.
Blue again is a typical TT car which by 21 psi is really struggling with the little T2's.



Title: Re: New Guy.
Post by: Grey on November 26, 2012, 07:58:47 AM
I think Grey is talking about what is a STD Turbo conversion for them Ade.

If I have it right they run on petrol make about 370 bhp on 1 bar & are basically a STD engine with a turbo bolted to it.
They cost £1500 to build. A 200+ bhp power increase is well worth £1500 LOL!

I followed Grey's engine build, he has a Kent cam kit in it & 1500 pounds worth of turbo bolted to it LOL!
Probably close to a 3K build.


Well here you go.
It looks like you allow 14% for the transmission so I corrected your figures for the flywheel.

(http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b228/DavidHoward/Minker/Stealth23psiComparison.jpg)


I included my first & only run at 23 psi.
On the 2nd run I added fuel & ignition, at 5400rpm the gasket fire ring blew!
So is unfinished but I doubt it will make more than 500 bhp.
Blue again is a typical TT car which by 21 psi is really struggling with the little T2's.





Yes, £1500 is with a totally standard engine with the recipe above. My 535BHP is well over £3000, say more around £5000 for a total.
Here is the specs:
 Ford 2.9 V6
 ported cylinder heads
 O-ringed head
 Mira milled seats
 Kent camshaft (V6T46) 284 degrees and 11.2 lifting
 Kent Valve Springs
 12:9 cylinder head bolt
 Mocal Oil Cooler
 Mocal Oljekylarar Adapter
 Modified Oil Pump
 Garrett GT40 turbocharger
 2mm throttling the oil pressure
 Megasquirt MS1 v3.0 (Launch, fan control and dual tables)
 Custom Made injector harness
 Rebuilt distributor
 MSD 6A Ignition Amplifier
 MSD Blaster 2 Ignition Coil
 Denso Spark
 Precision 680cc injectors
 E85
 Bosch 044 fuel pump
 KL-Racing intercooler
 Stainless steel pressure pipes
 Stainless steel water pipes
 Samco Silicone Hoses
 Tial 50mm blow off valve (copy)
 Lintec Sport air filter
 HKS 50mm Wastegate (copy)
 Custom Made pulse splitting manifolds
 3.5 "Downpipe
 3.5 "exhaust system with one damper
 Powder coated valve covers, etc.
 Brushed aluminum details
 Polished stainless steel parts

 Processed 2.8 Flywheel
 765 pressure plate
 6 pucks sintered clutch disc
 Re welded BMW Getrag 265 gearbox
 Dedicated stockists for the journal in the box
 jointed propeller shaft
 Custom-made gearbox mount
 Custom Made support bearing bracket Propshaft
 Shortened gearbox mount
 Rebuilt BMW 535 lever

So, the comparison is interesting. I run at 21psi and it seams like the big turbo makes really big torque at high revs and also keeps the torque higher, longer, but of course it starts 1000RPM later. Depending on what you are using your car for, it's of course better with a good low end torque, but I would say that a big turbo is a better experience any day. When it kicks in @ 3500-4000RPM it feels so much more, the tires kicks loose and you get some major adrenalin rush! :)

Here is the Dyno of the 323WHP £1500 project.
Title: Re: New Guy.
Post by: capri v8 driver on November 26, 2012, 08:08:09 AM
I like it!!!!!!!!!!

Welcom.
Title: Re: New Guy.
Post by: Grey on November 26, 2012, 08:21:27 AM
I like it!!!!!!!!!!

Welcom.

Thanks mate!  ;D
Title: Re: New Guy.
Post by: Grey on November 26, 2012, 09:20:45 AM
Hi and welcome

Some very cool cars you guys are building over there  :mellow:

Matt

Thanks mate,
It's not that difficult since the durability is very high on the 29ers. :)
Title: Re: New Guy.
Post by: fordrwd4ever on November 26, 2012, 12:16:06 PM
Welcome onboard our forum.

Really nice cars you have there.
You probably have a new record on the old 12V engine ..
(and i thought the 500BHP from Gengis was amazing ..)


Keep the pictures coming  :lol: :lol:
Title: Re: New Guy.
Post by: Dave on November 27, 2012, 23:19:41 PM

So, the comparison is interesting. I run at 21psi and it seams like the big turbo makes really big torque at high revs and also keeps the torque higher, longer, but of course it starts 1000RPM later. Depending on what you are using your car for, it's of course better with a good low end torque, but I would say that a big turbo is a better experience any day. When it kicks in @ 3500-4000RPM it feels so much more, the tires kicks loose and you get some major adrenalin rush! :)


Yes mate above 1 bar you certainly have the advantage where as I am better below 1 bar due to same power but bigger power band.

We have tuned for different things & it shows.

Mine has a smooth power delivery with a very wide power band that's ideal for the road.

Yours don't get going till 3500 rpm but kicks in very hard with 75 lbs/ft jumps every 200 rpm as it spools.
Once spooled your in better efficiency islands & have less back pressure so you make more power.
Yours is ideal for the track.

Gengis's engine is very much like yours also but again his turbo's hold him back where as yours is still good at 500bhp +.

Also I have very high transmission drag as I am very high geared for the road plus 4x4.

This lets me get 35 mpg on the motorway & makes the car very refined at speed.

We have the same basic engine but very different in character LOL!

In my current spec I will never match your BHP but may hit your peak torque figure when I get back on the dyno.
Title: Re: New Guy.
Post by: Grey on December 04, 2012, 12:08:17 PM

So, the comparison is interesting. I run at 21psi and it seams like the big turbo makes really big torque at high revs and also keeps the torque higher, longer, but of course it starts 1000RPM later. Depending on what you are using your car for, it's of course better with a good low end torque, but I would say that a big turbo is a better experience any day. When it kicks in @ 3500-4000RPM it feels so much more, the tires kicks loose and you get some major adrenalin rush! :)


Yes mate above 1 bar you certainly have the advantage where as I am better below 1 bar due to same power but bigger power band.

We have tuned for different things & it shows.

Mine has a smooth power delivery with a very wide power band that's ideal for the road.

Yours don't get going till 3500 rpm but kicks in very hard with 75 lbs/ft jumps every 200 rpm as it spools.
Once spooled your in better efficiency islands & have less back pressure so you make more power.
Yours is ideal for the track.

Gengis's engine is very much like yours also but again his turbo's hold him back where as yours is still good at 500bhp +.

Also I have very high transmission drag as I am very high geared for the road plus 4x4.

This lets me get 35 mpg on the motorway & makes the car very refined at speed.

We have the same basic engine but very different in character LOL!

In my current spec I will never match your BHP but may hit your peak torque figure when I get back on the dyno.


It's very interesting reading about your experience and compare both of our engines. It would be nice to feel how your engine character is just to get the idea of how it is. Closest i had to low boost was a Std 29er with a T3/04 turbo and that started building boost at 2000rpm. Actually i built that one to go around the track, just to be able to not change gears when accelerating from a hairpin. It felt good but not that exciting since i only run with 0.5 bar. It was also probably 200hp lesser than yours.

Correct me if I'm wrong but isn't Gengis's engine using NOS?  :blink:

You have a unbelievable mpg, sounds incredible with the boost coming at low RPM and also with the Kent V6T46 cam. Mine is using a lot more fuel, around 19-20 mpg but i guess thats also because of the E85 and "normal" gear ratio.

It will be very interesting when you get on the Dyno again! Looking forward to it.  :ph34r:
Title: Re: New Guy.
Post by: Dave on December 05, 2012, 23:35:15 PM
It will be different to yours, once the car is moving there is little to be gained by changing gears, as long as it's over 30mph in 5th it will pull that gear & out accelerate most cars on the road, by the time your over 2000rpm it starts to pull very hard. The TT 2.9's don't really feel like turbo cars, they feel more like a big V8 is in the engine bay & that's how they drive.
This is what I have tried hard to keep, it's boring, predictable & lazy driving. They are GT's rather than a YB racer.
Over 4K you feel a typical T2 twin turbo drop off in torque where as mine keeps pulling hard but not as hard as yours lol!

Mine pulls 2200rpm for 70mph, it runs almost idle vacuum at that speed yet a slight push of the throttle & it will go into boost & start pulling hard, no need to change gear.
I run Cossie green injectors at high pressures & map a sweet spot for cruising at 16:1 AFR.
Combine the above with the engines better tuned efficiency & 400 miles plus from a tank is not hard.

You can see boost plots here at a bar.

(http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b228/DavidHoward/Minker/StealthBoostComparison1.jpg)

Gengis's engine comparison added below, with & with out NOS.

Gengis will not match your engines peak figures as his turbo's will stop him, he might have turbo's capable of 700 hp but not on a 2.9 they won't as they are only efficient up to 25 psi so he can't run high enough boost & they spool way too late hence why he had to use 50 hp of NOS to spool them.

(http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b228/DavidHoward/Minker/Stealth23psiComparison2-1.jpg)

Of course he could run more NOS but that's a bit of a gamble.
Title: Re: New Guy.
Post by: Grey on December 06, 2012, 12:33:24 PM
It will be different to yours, once the car is moving there is little to be gained by changing gears, as long as it's over 30mph in 5th it will pull that gear & out accelerate most cars on the road, by the time your over 2000rpm it starts to pull very hard. The TT 2.9's don't really feel like turbo cars, they feel more like a big V8 is in the engine bay & that's how they drive.
This is what I have tried hard to keep, it's boring, predictable & lazy driving. They are GT's rather than a YB racer.
Over 4K you feel a typical T2 twin turbo drop off in torque where as mine keeps pulling hard but not as hard as yours lol!

Mine pulls 2200rpm for 70mph, it runs almost idle vacuum at that speed yet a slight push of the throttle & it will go into boost & start pulling hard, no need to change gear.
I run Cossie green injectors at high pressures & map a sweet spot for cruising at 16:1 AFR.
Combine the above with the engines better tuned efficiency & 400 miles plus from a tank is not hard.

You can see boost plots here at a bar.

(http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b228/DavidHoward/Minker/StealthBoostComparison1.jpg)

Gengis's engine comparison added below, with & with out NOS.

Gengis will not match your engines peak figures as his turbo's will stop him, he might have turbo's capable of 700 hp but not on a 2.9 they won't as they are only efficient up to 25 psi so he can't run high enough boost & they spool way too late hence why he had to use 50 hp of NOS to spool them.

(http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b228/DavidHoward/Minker/Stealth23psiComparison2-1.jpg)

Of course he could run more NOS but that's a bit of a gamble.

What type of EMS are you using?

16:1 AFR is high (lambad 1.09), if i would run at that AFR my engine would not be nice to drive. It would be coughing. AFR 15:1 is working (lambda 1,05) but I'm running at around lambda 0,95. I guess mine could be better tuned too.

2200rpm @ 70mph is really low. What kind of rear axle and ratio do you use? Lowest we got here in Sweden in a Sierra/Scorpio is a 3,14:1, but that would not be enough to get down to 2200rpm @ 70mph. 2700rpm minimum.
I guess you loose some accelerating too when having that low ratio? Got any 1/4mile runs?
Here is a G-tech with the Capri:
(http://skogenracing.myftp.org/tidkort/2011/capri29t.jpg)

Nice charts, it's very interesting when looking at comparisons between the engines. What turbos do Gengis run?

Would be nice to install a 50hp NOS kit on mine. Would get the spool up earlier i guess, looking at Gengis numbers I imagine it would get me 500rpm earlier boost and around 635LBS/FT. Hmm... better not to spare the powertrain.  :laugh:

The boost plots is very similar to my old teams 24h scrap race car, boost started at 2000rpm and full at around 3000-3500. China Garrett T3/04 on that one. Worked great at 0.5bar of boost (8psi) but it got a very slow spool-up. It was a fast track so it worked great... mmm, great memories of that race. I would like to re do the race and boost it up to 1 bar instead. It was damn fast on the straights compared to the small Mazda 323 that run (not that fast in the corners though), here is an movie with one hour left to go with a left tire that was dead: Team was called "Team Glasshink" which more or less means "Team Ice Cream Bucket".  ;D



Title: Re: New Guy.
Post by: Dave on December 07, 2012, 12:35:04 PM
Quote
What type of EMS are you using?

16:1 AFR is high (lambad 1.09), if i would run at that AFR my engine would not be nice to drive. It would be coughing. AFR 15:1 is working (lambda 1,05) but I'm running at around lambda 0,95. I guess mine could be better tuned too.

2200rpm @ 70mph is really low. What kind of rear axle and ratio do you use? Lowest we got here in Sweden in a Sierra/Scorpio is a 3,14:1, but that would not be enough to get down to 2200rpm @ 70mph. 2700rpm minimum.

It's a very old ECU, made by Turbo Technics in the late 80's.
http://www.fordpower.org.uk/forum2/index.php/topic,8552.0.html (http://www.fordpower.org.uk/forum2/index.php/topic,8552.0.html)

Yes you have to be careful, I only run 16:1 between 1800rpm - 3000rpm off boost. It's right on the limit just a little leaner & it will stutter & has to be 14:1 or :o richer for low revs.
Modern engines can run leaner & are often mapped same as mine.

Yeah it has a Ford 3.14 rear LSD & a matching 3.14 front diff that Turbo Technics had made for their cars to suit the torque curve better. It also has a 0.75 top gear from a diesel MT75 & the road tyres are 195 60 15 all = 31mph per 1000rpm
http://www.fordpower.org.uk/forum2/index.php/topic,1326.0.html (http://www.fordpower.org.uk/forum2/index.php/topic,1326.0.html)

10.6 quarters is that really what the Capri was doing! Mega fast if so :o :o

I have never done a quarter with this new engine yet but it's miles quicker than the old engine which was 310bhp / 360 lbs & that did a best of 12.91 with the same high gearing but 205 50 15 tyres & total weight of 3300lbs.


Gengis runs GT2860RS turbo's he has maxed out boost wise.

(http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b228/DavidHoward/Forum/Gengis25psiNOS.jpg)

You have got a fair bit left. Guessed your actual GT40

(http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b228/DavidHoward/Forum/Skogen21psiE85535bhp.jpg)

& I still have a bit to play with LOL!

(http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b228/DavidHoward/Forum/Stealth23psi435bhp.jpg)
Title: Re: New Guy.
Post by: Grey on December 07, 2012, 13:03:53 PM

Quote
What type of EMS are you using?

16:1 AFR is high (lambad 1.09), if i would run at that AFR my engine would not be nice to drive. It would be coughing. AFR 15:1 is working (lambda 1,05) but I'm running at around lambda 0,95. I guess mine could be better tuned too.

2200rpm @ 70mph is really low. What kind of rear axle and ratio do you use? Lowest we got here in Sweden in a Sierra/Scorpio is a 3,14:1, but that would not be enough to get down to 2200rpm @ 70mph. 2700rpm minimum.

It's a very old ECU, made by Turbo Technics in the late 80's.
http://www.fordpower.org.uk/forum2/index.php/topic,8552.0.html (http://www.fordpower.org.uk/forum2/index.php/topic,8552.0.html)

Yes you have to be careful, I only run 16:1 between 1800rpm - 3000rpm off boost. It's right on the limit just a little leaner & it will stutter & has to be 14:1 or :o richer for low revs.
Modern engines can run leaner & are often mapped same as mine.

Yeah it has a Ford 3.14 rear LSD & a matching 3.14 front diff that Turbo Technics had made for their cars to suit the torque curve better. It also has a 0.75 top gear from a diesel MT75 & the road tyres are 195 60 15 all = 31mph per 1000rpm
http://www.fordpower.org.uk/forum2/index.php/topic,1326.0.html (http://www.fordpower.org.uk/forum2/index.php/topic,1326.0.html)

10.6 quarters is that really what the Capri was doing! Mega fast if so :o :o

I have never done a quarter with this new engine yet but it's miles quicker than the old engine which was 310bhp / 360 lbs & that did a best of 12.91 with the same high gearing but 205 50 15 tyres & total weight of 3300lbs.


Gengis runs GT2860RS turbo's he has maxed out boost wise.

http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b228/DavidHoward/Forum/Gengis25psiNOS.jpg

You have got a fair bit left. Guessed your actual GT40

http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b228/DavidHoward/Forum/Skogen21psiE85535bhp.jpg

& I still have a bit to play with LOL!

http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b228/DavidHoward/Forum/Stealth23psi435bhp.jpg

Ah, i guessed so. Turbo technics made good stuff but isn't it a bit old to run with today? :blink:

Rare setup. We are not that fortunate to get low ratio LSD here. 3.36 is common though.

Yes, it did 10.6714s with a wheel lift.  :wacko:
60-feat : 1.5357s
200m speed: 163.43km/h
200m time: 6.8565s
402m speed: 208.83km/h
402m time: 10.6714s

I haven't got any time with my granny yet. Maybe next year.

You know, our 370BHP kit (367 BHP / 553 Nm) makes a standard sierra sapphire to run 12.023s  @ 187km/h . ;D
201m 7.787s @ 151.311km/h
402m 12.023s @ 187.328km/h

0-100 -> 4.555s
0-200 -> 14.546s
100-150 -> 3.535s
100-200 -> 9.991s


Yeah, Gengis is using way to small turbos.
My GT40 is maxed out, it cannot deliver any more power.  :-
You are pretty close to surging the turbos, but as long as you just don't make it flow better it looks good. :blink: (still a bit to small for my taste but much better than Gengis)
Title: Re: New Guy.
Post by: TimoXr4i on December 07, 2012, 20:28:13 PM
Sweet project. I read the list with the specs, but dont see anything abouth pistons or rods or such? Stock crank and such? Im building a 2.8 with a single turbo, using a scorpio 2.8 efi inlet, and im saving money for megasquirt ms2v3.0. Im nog aimng for 300 horses, but i should be able to make 250 using my single t3, dave told me the turbo should be able tot get 325 horses at max, but i dont want max,i want to hold it in one piece ;D how did you guys fit the beemer gearbox? And is it a 5 speed, or a six speed? My car stays rwd, and beemer boxes arent that expensive.

Ive read the part on the o ringed head gasket, but i dont understand one thing, how does it fit with your headgasket?

You want to trade your big spec engine for my sierra 2.0 dohc? Has only 400.000 km on the counter, first engine, cossie parts fitted, revcounter and front grille, and it has a fully electrical leather heated interior ;D just kidding haha ;D

Keep us posted with updates and such!
Title: Re: New Guy.
Post by: Dave on December 07, 2012, 20:38:07 PM
Quote
Ah, i guessed so. Turbo technics made good stuff but isn't it a bit old to run with today?

Well they actually copied it from a firm called Zytek, the ECU was used in F1 once but is now so basic lol!

The whole project is back to basic tuning, no fancy add on's here!

It's actually the point of the engine Grey, if I can get results with a 25 year old ECU, a couple of £100 Chinese turbo's I helped to develop with the factory based on GT2252's, an engine bore 100,000 miles old, other not perfect bits & bobs.

Prove the engine can make good power, mpg, run normal everyday cheap fuel & be reliable. The almost perfect road engine!

Then show people how to build & tune the engine within a total budget of 3000 pounds hopefully a few more engine's will be done & the 2.9 12V starts to get developed which is what it needs.

Quote
Rare set up. We are not that fortunate to get low ratio LSD here. 3.36 is common though

I have something even more rare a 7.5 version of the 3.14, only ever sold in Sweden LOL!
Took me 2 years to find for another project.

Them are very good quarters by any ones STD, well done!

Can't see mine ever getting below 11.5 unless it goes on a serious diet ;D

As I said we have tuned for different things mine is an all rounder where as yours is a drag machine :wacko:

Quote
Yeah, Gengis is using way to small turbos.

Actually they are too big. Would suit the 4.0L V6 much better.

He has not got the exhaust flow to drive them so needs NOS to get them spinning & the compressor side flows way more than he needs but is not efficient at the boost level's he needs.
But fair play to Gengis for pushing the engine, makes his drive to work very exciting! :mellow:

Quote
You are pretty close to surging the turbos, but as long as you just don't make it flow better it looks good.

I run it close to surge on purpose mate, up to 20 psi the peak HP is always in max efficiency, it's one of the reasons the engine is so strong below 20 psi & goes off the boil above.
I built the engine for a max 500bhp in theory but day to day plan to run 400bhp at 1 bar reliably.


Another one to watch here:

http://www.fordpower.org.uk/forum2/index.php/topic,9890.msg69777/boardseen.html#new

Like mine but Matts should out spool me & will in theory hit 500bhp.
Title: Re: New Guy.
Post by: T4T on December 08, 2012, 03:49:11 AM
Comparing these engines - obviously turbo choice and e85 if used makes an enormous difference -
surely the compression ratios are having a very significant effect as well ?

This giving you "free" power and torque without having to flow more air .

Or am I making a stupido assumption ?

Matt
Title: Re: New Guy.
Post by: Dave on December 08, 2012, 10:36:10 AM
Compression ratios, well me & Gengis are 7 to 1. Grey is around 9 to 1.

Grey's higher compression helps him spool that big boy but once on boost there is little difference as the turbo plus fuel difference is far more important.

I know what your thinking but the compression thing is not the key ingredient here.
Title: Re: New Guy.
Post by: Grey on December 11, 2012, 10:57:25 AM
Quote
Rare set up. We are not that fortunate to get low ratio LSD here. 3.36 is common though

I have something even more rare a 7.5 version of the 3.14, only ever sold in Sweden LOL!
Took me 2 years to find for another project.
I didn't know that it was only in Sweden, but yeah, then it's rare. Only a few 2.8 Sierras from 1988 got those. :)

Quote
Can't see mine ever getting below 11.5 unless it goes on a serious diet ;D
Hehe, guess it's not the point of the car but if you give it a run, you might get a low 11 or even a high 10. My granny that weighs 1500kg should be able to the same figures.

Quote
As I said we have tuned for different things mine is an all rounder where as yours is a drag machine :wacko:
Very true. We like to drive around with a car that when you press the pedal you should be able to outrun a Ferrari on the straights and go really fast @ the strip but also reliability is very important so high speed races at a highway (250km/h+) is not that common due to the stress of the engine and power train. It's like training your body. Our cars is built for explosive powers but not that longwinded, while yours is more longwinded but not that explosive.  :ph34r:


Quote
Yeah, Gengis is using way to small turbos.
Quote
Actually they are too big. Would suit the 4.0L V6 much better.
Could not agree on that one. The 4L is pumping so much air that it would not be good. With a single Precision 67 turbo, good for 600BHP+, the last 1500rpm it lost power due to heat and inefficiency of the engine. When changing to a bigger and older Holset HX55 the engine could breathe much better and would pull all the way to the rev limit.

Quote
He has not got the exhaust flow to drive them so needs NOS to get them spinning & the compressor side flows way more than he needs but is not efficient at the boost level's he needs.
True, the GT28RS would work much better on 1bar of boost because is not built for high boost. This is just the problem with running twin turbo, small turbos are not built for high boost. The efficiency is really bad when going above 1.5 bar. If Gengis would put in one GT3788R he would hit the maximum efficiency and would without any problems get 550BHP with NOS. The spool is probably going to be the same but the hp would rise a lot due to higher efficiency of the turbo over the whole RPM range.
(http://www.squirrelpf.com/turbocalc/graph.php?version=4&pr0=1&pr1=1.07&pr2=1.69&pr3=2.31&pr4=2.31&pr5=2.31&pr6=2.31&pr7=2.31&airflow0=3.6&airflow1=11.6&airflow2=21.1&airflow3=32.4&airflow4=39.5&airflow5=44.6&airflow6=48.2&airflow7=49.3&product_id=176)

Quote
But fair play to Gengis for pushing the engine, makes his drive to work very exciting! :mellow:
Yeah, I just love to see high powered 29ers that is an old construction from the 60s with push rods and still can deliver better than any 12v engine i know of.  :blink:

I would love to see your engine with the better efficiency and spooling Mitsu TD04H-16T. Should look something like this and give you almost the same spool but closer to 450BHP with lesser boost.
(http://www.squirrelpf.com/turbocalc/graph.php?version=4&pr0=1&pr1=1.07&pr2=1.77&pr3=2.47&pr4=2.47&pr5=2.47&pr6=2.47&pr7=2.47&airflow0=26&airflow1=83&airflow2=159&airflow3=250&airflow4=299&airflow5=333&airflow6=355&airflow7=360&product_id=171)

That mitsu is incredible of making power at high boost but still spool is really good.
Here's a RST 1.6 with Piper S2 cam making 267.3bhp & 339nm (250lb/ft) torque @ 20psi of boost.
(http://personal.inet.fi/private/anttiorava/RST/printti.jpg)
http://passionford.com/forum/restorations-rebuilds-and-projects/294534-finnish-s2-rst-restoration-update-17-8-2010-photoshoot.html

This is what the map should look like for him:
(http://www.squirrelpf.com/turbocalc/graph.php?version=4&pr0=1&pr1=1.07&pr2=1.73&pr3=2.39&pr4=2.39&pr5=2.39&pr6=2.39&pr7=2.39&airflow0=29&airflow1=77&airflow2=154&airflow3=252&airflow4=319&airflow5=370&airflow6=399&airflow7=409&product_id=171)
Title: Re: New Guy.
Post by: Grey on December 11, 2012, 11:14:21 AM
Sweet project. I read the list with the specs, but dont see anything abouth pistons or rods or such? Stock crank and such? Im building a 2.8 with a single turbo, using a scorpio 2.8 efi inlet, and im saving money for megasquirt ms2v3.0. Im nog aimng for 300 horses, but i should be able to make 250 using my single t3, dave told me the turbo should be able tot get 325 horses at max, but i dont want max,i want to hold it in one piece ;D how did you guys fit the beemer gearbox? And is it a 5 speed, or a six speed? My car stays rwd, and beemer boxes arent that expensive.

Ive read the part on the o ringed head gasket, but i dont understand one thing, how does it fit with your headgasket?

You want to trade your big spec engine for my sierra 2.0 dohc? Has only 400.000 km on the counter, first engine, cossie parts fitted, revcounter and front grille, and it has a fully electrical leather heated interior ;D just kidding haha ;D

Keep us posted with updates and such!

Factory stock crank, rods and pistons. Even the block is std.
If you can, build on a 29er instead. The 2.8 is not worth spending money on.  :rolleyes:

The gearbox is mated with a MT75 so it fits the 2.9er. Some tig welding and you are there. It's a 5-speed Getrag 260. :blink:

We do not o-ring the gasket, we o-ring the heads. Easy and when fitting the head gasket you get them durable for 1.5bar+

Haha, no trade unless you can send over a £5000 BOA engine that i can swap to.  ;D Would not want to drive on the "wrong" side either.  :-X  ;D


Regarding the compression ratio.
With o-rings and forged pistons there is no need to be below 9.0:1. If I would have built an 29er with free hands i would have given it 9.5:1 on E85 (9.0:1 with 98 RON) forged pistons with H-beam rods and an even bigger turbo than mine, say a better spooling BW S300 or a Garrett GT4294. That would give me the power to run with a reliable 600BHP+ @ the same boost.
Title: Re: New Guy.
Post by: Dave on December 16, 2012, 23:47:52 PM
Quote
I didn't know that it was only in Sweden, but yeah, then it's rare. Only a few 2.8 Sierras from 1988 got those. :)
Yeah if you know of another I will buy it ;D

Quote
Hehe, guess it's not the point of the car but if you give it a run, you might get a low 11 or even a high 10. My granny that weighs 1500kg should be able to the same figures.
Well you do get a freak better than normal time sometimes don't you but no I have too much drag / high gearing mate.
I will be happy for anything in the 11's.  :mellow:

Quote
Very true. We like to drive around with a car that when you press the pedal you should be able to outrun a Ferrari on the straights and go really fast @ the strip but also reliability is very important so high speed races at a highway (250km/h+) is not that common due to the stress of the engine and power train. It's like training your body. Our cars is built for explosive powers but not that longwinded, while yours is more longwinded but not that explosive.

Very true but it still shifts, fast enough to catch Nissan GTR's down the straight at Silverstone however they simply pull away on the corners & only need half the braking distance I need!  :'(
It's a very easy car to drive fast for mile after mile.

Quote
Could not agree on that one. The 4L is pumping so much air that it would not be good. With a single Precision 67 turbo, good for 600BHP+, the last 1500rpm it lost power due to heat and inefficiency of the engine. When changing to a bigger and older Holset HX55 the engine could breathe much better and would pull all the way to the rev limit.

Again we are looking at it from two different views, you are focused on power & the best possible figures where as I look for something that builds on the engines STD power characteristics to give a wide torque curve with decent power.
A pair of GT2860RS on a 12v 4.0L are good for that.  :P

Quote
True, the GT28RS would work much better on 1bar of boost because is not built for high boost. This is just the problem with running twin turbo, small turbos are not built for high boost. The efficiency is really bad when going above 1.5 bar. If Gengis would put in one GT3788R he would hit the maximum efficiency and would without any problems get 550BHP with NOS. The spool is probably going to be the same but the hp would rise a lot due to higher efficiency of the turbo over the whole RPM range.

The GT2860RS has particularly bad efficiency at high boost, it's not the norm.
Back say 15 years ago there was a big difference between small & big turbo's as you say but now we have more modern designs the difference is far smaller if not the same. So I have to disagree.

For a road tuned V engine a twin turbo set-up will always give the largest spread of torque or response.
It's simply a better package i.e suits the lay out of the engine better.
A single turbo wastes a lot of exhaust energy due to the heat lost, distance & pressure drop with all the extra pipe work.
Creates more engine bay heat & so on.....
It don't matter if your chasing figures but if you want the widest torque curve it does.

If your read the tech stuff on stuff like the twin turbo Porshces, GTR's or even the old F1 twin turbo stuff it high lights the problems & all the testing that was done.

That old F1 engine was like 1500cc, a V6 Twin Turbo that reved to 12,000 rpm, on 4 bar boost it made 1200 bhp & was reliable between 600mile rebuilds. It ran on pretty much normal fuel too!

Crazy engine.


No single turbo for me mate.
Not that I don't admire what you have done with yours, it is simply not what I am looking for.

This build has achieved exactly what I wanted & more, I just need to sneek another 65 bhp out of it & it's mission complete ;D

Then onto the next build, a 24V BOB with Custom made VNT Turbo's.

The plan for that engine is to beat this 12V on every score, mpg should top 40mpg as it switches to 2wd in 5th & is even higher geared lol!

Title: Re: New Guy.
Post by: Grey on January 03, 2013, 15:36:17 PM
Quote
I didn't know that it was only in Sweden, but yeah, then it's rare. Only a few 2.8 Sierras from 1988 got those. :)
Quote
Yeah if you know of another I will buy it ;D

I will keep that in mind. ;)

Quote
No single turbo for me mate.
Not that I don't admire what you have done with yours, it is simply not what I am looking for.

This build has achieved exactly what I wanted & more, I just need to sneek another 65 bhp out of it & it's mission complete ;D

Then onto the next build, a 24V BOB with Custom made VNT Turbo's.

The plan for that engine is to beat this 12V on every score, mpg should top 40mpg as it switches to 2wd in 5th & is even higher geared lol!

Looking forward to see that project!  ;D
I'm a little on the same plans but i have to say though, there is nothing easy on the BOA/BOB compared to a regular 12v. To start building a 24v will give me a lot of problems: Space, price on the parts, scrap parts and so on... Maybe I try to do some major work on the 29er Granny since it got tones of space under the hood, guess that's good for power hungry Swedes like me. ;D

Anyways, I have some good news to tell you guys (at least for me ;D). My Company, GZ Racing AB have just bought a Dyno so in the future there will be some tests with the 29ers. Going to try to start a power project where I can compare different turbos, flow, cams and so on to find out what is best and what works best for different purposes. Will be a off work project so I don't know how much time I can put on it but I guess time will tell.
Title: Re: New Guy.
Post by: Lemon-Ade on January 03, 2013, 21:14:22 PM
It's a shame your not a bit closer Gray you would have a fordpower day on the cards at your dyno mate, congrats though,I wish you all the best with your investment  :mellow:

Title: Re: New Guy.
Post by: Grey on January 04, 2013, 09:29:49 AM
It's a shame your not a bit closer Gray you would have a fordpower day on the cards at your dyno mate, congrats though,I wish you all the best with your investment  :mellow:



Thanks Mate!
I might have a "FordPower Dyno Day" some day! :) I'll just load my P100 and go over seas.  ;D

Anyways, you guys are always welcome to Sweden to go for a run. Roads here are great and a really nice summer day with your great love (read car) is a memory for life!  :blink:
Title: Re: New Guy.
Post by: Dave on January 07, 2013, 21:40:26 PM

That's great news about the dyno, should be very helpful  :mellow:

Look forward to your findings.
Title: Re: New Guy.
Post by: revhead on January 09, 2013, 13:39:27 PM
Hi Grey i'm wondering about the heads on the 535hp 2.9er - does it still run stock 42/36mm valves?
Also the getrag gearbox, I have a few 260's kicking around but is the 265 better (this has the removable bellhousing I think)?
Cheers
Title: Re: New Guy.
Post by: Grey on January 09, 2013, 15:02:34 PM
Hi Grey i'm wondering about the heads on the 535hp 2.9er - does it still run stock 42/36mm valves?
Also the getrag gearbox, I have a few 260's kicking around but is the 265 better (this has the removable bellhousing I think)?
Cheers

The heads is only match ported, valves is stock but valve guides is better and it have got Mira machined seats. Kent valve springs even though i have measured the springs on another engine and the Kent springs is softer, probably due to higher lift and to save the cam. Didn't measure this set though.

26x Gearbox is more or less the same. Go for the 265 with removable bellhousing if you can, but I can recommend you to get a ZF-gearbox if you want it to get a bit stronger.
Title: Re: New Guy.
Post by: Grey on January 31, 2013, 08:23:49 AM
A nice movie from 2011 when the capri run 10.6714s with a little wheel lift.  :mellow:

It's the same 29er in the granny now. Plan is to upgrade the bottom with Cosworth pistons and a better turbo. GT40 is really good but since i have maxed out the Bosch 044 pump and 680cc injectors its better to choose a turbo that can do 550-600bhp but spools faster. My plan is to get max boost at 3000-3500rpm. 800NM+ or even 600LB/FT+ should be possible. Torque heaven, here I come!  :wacko:
Title: Re: New Guy.
Post by: Dave on February 03, 2013, 01:43:24 AM

Nice watch that Grey very artistically produced in places!

How do you expect me to catch you up if you keep improving things LOL!

I think having a larger spread of torque won't improve your quarter's but it will make it a far more enjoyable car to drive.
Title: Re: New Guy.
Post by: Grey on February 04, 2013, 09:14:06 AM

Nice watch that Grey very artistically produced in places!

How do you expect me to catch you up if you keep improving things LOL!

I think having a larger spread of torque won't improve your quarter's but it will make it a far more enjoyable car to drive.

Thanks mate,
Well, I'm improving because of the limits i have stumbled upon. To go above 500WHP is too expensive so why not improve the rest. As long as I'm above 500BHP, I'm happy.  :blink:
Catching me will not be an issue as long as we drive on a track.  ;)
Title: Re: New Guy.
Post by: Grey on February 06, 2013, 14:00:04 PM
So, I have been giving this a thought.
My HP is enough and it will cost me massive amount of money to get it above 535BHP, so I'm aiming to get better torque... well 564lb/ft (765Nm) isn't bad but I would also like to get better spool so I'm going for a more effective turbo with the same compressor housing but ball bearing and a smaller turbine housing. My goal is to get full boost at 3500rpm instead of todays 4500-4600rpm but without loosing my 535bhp.

I made some calculations on the matter and the numbers will really be impressive if everything will work as I want.
(http://i45.tinypic.com/125mm12.jpg)

665lb/ft+ (900Nm+)

So the goal for 2013 will be as follows.
Hope the parts can hold up. 29ers is a very impressive engine but as you all can remember, my bottom end is pure stock from factory. No changes what so ever!
If I get full boost earlier than 3500rpm, I will hold back on the boost or change to regular floating bearing. Can't push the limits too much, still want some durability!  :ph34r:

I will start to dismount the engine so a rebuild project is on its way.
Title: Re: New Guy.
Post by: Dave on February 06, 2013, 14:34:03 PM

LOL your crazy  ;D

Only way you will get that spool is with the smaller turbine housing yet you need the bigger turbine housing to flow over 500bhp.

Will be insane if you do it.  :mellow:
Title: Re: New Guy.
Post by: Grey on February 06, 2013, 15:09:47 PM

LOL your crazy  ;D

Only way you will get that spool is with the smaller turbine housing yet you need the bigger turbine housing to flow over 500bhp.

Will be insane if you do it.  :mellow:

Maybe will be so.
I have three different turbine housings. Hopefully I can use the ball bearing cartridge on all of them to compare.  :blink:

I will start to study all of them later on. Should be able to get one mean hybrid turbo!  ;D
Title: Re: New Guy.
Post by: mk2 cossie on February 06, 2013, 18:09:19 PM
How much torque from a 2.9er  :-X

I'm sorry, but thats just bloody mental  :o
Any on board footage of the vehicle the engine is currently in tho Grey?  ;D
Title: Re: New Guy.
Post by: Grey on February 07, 2013, 18:07:13 PM
How much torque from a 2.9er  :-X

I'm sorry, but thats just bloody mental  :o
Any on board footage of the vehicle the engine is currently in tho Grey?  ;D

Yepp, mental is a proper word for it. Not there yet...

Early vid after I fired it up a year ago. Interior and some fixes under the hood was not done there and the skirts is now long gone. Now i also got recaro interior.  ;)
On the first page in this thread you can find images from the same time.
Title: Re: New Guy.
Post by: Dave on February 11, 2013, 22:25:39 PM

Quote
I have three different turbine housings. Hopefully I can use the ball bearing cartridge on all of them to compare

Now that will be very interesting :mellow:

You know some of the most insane people have come up with the most amazing results all through history  ;D

I will of course help if I can.

Good Luck.
Title: Re: New Guy.
Post by: Grey on March 14, 2013, 21:06:08 PM
Today the old GT4082 said good bye and on monday a new one will say hello!  ;D

Faster spool and more HP FTW!
Title: Re: New Guy.
Post by: Dave on March 20, 2013, 22:04:49 PM

 :mellow:

Now this will be interesting!
Title: Re: New Guy.
Post by: Grey on March 21, 2013, 11:02:57 AM

 :mellow:

Now this will be interesting!

Very interesting.  ;D Well, more updates will come as soon as I get the time to dig in to it!
Title: Re: New Guy.
Post by: Grey on May 07, 2013, 08:56:07 AM
Moved the Granny to a new cozier spot. Hopefully magic will happen.  :blink:
(http://pics.gzracing.se/pics/granadan/Del12/granadamys.jpg)

I also tried to fit the new turbo. A cute thing with 7.5kg weight. Don't be fooled of it's size. This boosted little thing can do the same figures as my GT40, but with a lot faster spool. 900nm here i come!  :wacko:
(http://pics.gzracing.se/pics/granadan/Del12/ny_turbo.jpg)

So, next step is to pull apart the engine and rebuild the exhaust manifold to fit the new turbo. I got a lot to do at the moment since the dyno will arrive within a month, but i will try to get some time for the Granny later on.
More will come!
Title: Re: New Guy.
Post by: limey on May 08, 2013, 06:21:27 AM
awsome!!!!!
i really really like this granada,nice one mate.
gonna read through it all properly from the start later today :mellow:
Title: Re: New Guy.
Post by: Dave on May 11, 2013, 09:21:14 AM

Awesome indeed  ;D

Quote
900nm here i come!

Holly crap  ;D   soon to be followed with a new gearbox the way you guys drive lol!


Title: Re: New Guy.
Post by: Grey on May 12, 2013, 20:51:15 PM

Awesome indeed  ;D

Quote
900nm here i come!

Holly crap  ;D   soon to be followed with a new gearbox the way you guys drive lol!




Guess the internal will say stop before the Getrag 265, but we will see... Maybe next step will be to put in tougher stuffs and run even higher boost. With forged pistons and H-beam rods there should be no problems to run over 700BHP and 1000nm in this engine. Lets start with going 900nm and take it from there...
Title: Re: New Guy.
Post by: T4T on May 12, 2013, 21:18:33 PM
Grey , do you skogen guys have problems with big end bearings ?

What oil do you run to keep things good ?

Matt
Title: Re: New Guy.
Post by: Grey on May 12, 2013, 22:35:36 PM
Grey , do you skogen guys have problems with big end bearings ?

What oil do you run to keep things good ?

Matt

Yepp, after some abuse they don't like it. Theory of it is that the 2.9er have a long stroke which make the turn a bit heavier for the big ends. Best tip is to check the big end after a season.

Try to run some type of racing 15-40 oil. Me myself like Amalie or Redline, but some of the guys run Statoil Racing oil.
Title: Re: New Guy.
Post by: Grey on May 13, 2013, 09:24:36 AM
I got some questions about the Getrag 265 and how i fit it to the 29er.
Well, here is the way: Re-weld it! :)
(http://pics.gzracing.se/pics/granadan/Del7/trepipor.JPG)

Nothing is easy, but if you have got the right contact or tools you will get this conversion done easy and cheap.

I'll also throw in a pic of the whole 535BHP package.  :mellow:
(http://pics.gzracing.se/pics/granadan/Del6/535hk-kit.jpg) (http://pics.gzracing.se/pics/granadan/Del6/535hk-kit2.jpg)
Title: Re: New Guy.
Post by: revhead on May 13, 2013, 15:06:41 PM
I think that's a 260/6 (E34)
They have the the fins on the bottom which a 260/5 doesn't (stronger 265 gearset too)
Title: Re: New Guy.
Post by: Grey on May 13, 2013, 22:19:50 PM
I think that's a 260/6 (E34)
They have the the fins on the bottom which a 260/5 doesn't (stronger 265 gearset too)

Yepp, that is correct. Thought the name was 265, but it is the 260/6 from a 535, the M30 big block BMW engine.
Title: Re: New Guy.
Post by: TimoXr4i on May 15, 2013, 16:03:34 PM
Ive seen theyre 3 part boxes and 1 part boxes, what did you use? Ive got a t9 v6 bellhouse witch i might fit. What clutch did you use? And hoe is the input axle done? Also, if i use a box like this, how is it done with the driveshaft and such? And the speedo? Does the gearstick is roughly on the same place as on a mt75?  Seen the single part boxes for 50 euros...
Title: Re: New Guy.
Post by: Grey on May 15, 2013, 19:53:15 PM
Ive seen theyre 3 part boxes and 1 part boxes, what did you use? Ive got a t9 v6 bellhouse witch i might fit. What clutch did you use? And hoe is the input axle done? Also, if i use a box like this, how is it done with the driveshaft and such? And the speedo? Does the gearstick is roughly on the same place as on a mt75?  Seen the single part boxes for 50 euros...

Haha, many questions. :blink:
I have used a MT75 V6 bellhouse.
Sachs 765 pressure plate with 6-pucks sinter (It's a clutch from hell if you do not use hydraulic, really heavy to hold.
It's a distance so it lines up with the spigot bearing.
I have used a Scorpio prop shaft and pressured it together with a BMW prop. You could weld it if you cannot get a hydraulic company to pressure it for you (very rare to pressure it, have not heard of anyone than we that does that but it works great for over 750bhp.
Speedo is no no, I'm about to install a digital external speedo. Gearstick is shortened, and you have to make a special mount for it in the back, but as you can see the stick is correct now. 
Title: Re: New Guy.
Post by: TimoXr4i on May 15, 2013, 20:42:04 PM
I dont want a sinter clutch, its in our racer, and non hydrolic, lucky we have a rolling start...

You just welded a mt75 v6 bellhouse to a 3 part getrag box? Ive seen adapter plates for fitting it to an opel manta or such, so i can make one for a t9 bellhouse i think.

Ill think i better stick to a mt75 v6 box, fits very good with a sierra dohc prop and such...
Title: Re: New Guy.
Post by: Grey on May 15, 2013, 20:58:14 PM
I dont want a sinter clutch, its in our racer, and non hydrolic, lucky we have a rolling start...

You just welded a mt75 v6 bellhouse to a 3 part getrag box? Ive seen adapter plates for fitting it to an opel manta or such, so i can make one for a t9 bellhouse i think.

Ill think i better stick to a mt75 v6 box, fits very good with a sierra dohc prop and such...

The MT75 will do for 600nm or 400bhp, but above that the third gear will break. It will not work for me since i got to much power. Preferable i should have got a ZF M3 or diesel version but the gear ratio is very off so the getrag is much better in my case. It does not have an adapter, but as you can see it is welded at the right size.
Title: Re: New Guy.
Post by: revhead on May 15, 2013, 22:49:55 PM
If you can find a 265/6.1, 6.12 or 6.45 from an E12 M535i or early 635csi or even an early seven this is an overdrive box, with a removable bellhousing and it has a speedo drive on the box.  Probably easier to make an adaptor plate with these. But I think all european E12 M535i were dogleg boxes.
The 260 and the 280 are integral bellhousings.
I have seen the Getrag 420G (from the later six speed E34 M5 and also later M3's) behind a 900bhp motor.
I had a mint S38 B38 and 420G for a bmw project but stupidly sold them  :-[
Bought another S38 B38 cheap but it was f**cked  :'(
Title: Re: New Guy.
Post by: Grey on June 12, 2013, 21:35:00 PM
I got a bunch of really big turbos, so i could not keep my hands of the granny. It's just a test, not for real. Would be nice with 1000hp+ in a 29er though.   :wacko:
(http://oi44.tinypic.com/kal2f5.jpg)

(http://oi42.tinypic.com/711oxs.jpg)

If I put in better pistons and rods I will try out what the 29er limits are.
Title: Re: New Guy.
Post by: TimoXr4i on June 12, 2013, 21:38:40 PM
Can you tell me how the y piece is made just in front of the throttle bodie? Im planning to make my own, but as short as possible, but im not a metal fabricator, im an electrician... Could make it from copper pipe soldering it with silver.... But wont be as pretty as glassbead blasted metal!
Title: Re: New Guy.
Post by: Grey on June 13, 2013, 10:08:46 AM
Can you tell me how the y piece is made just in front of the throttle bodie? Im planning to make my own, but as short as possible, but im not a metal fabricator, im an electrician... Could make it from copper pipe soldering it with silver.... But wont be as pretty as glassbead blasted metal!

Just buy a 2x2" - 1x2.5" Y-pipe. It will not be as nice as the one i got but it will save you the time and effort to make your own.

Like on this image:
(http://www1.garaget.org/archive/3/2216/292306/292306-2756492.jpg)
Title: Re: New Guy.
Post by: Dave on June 16, 2013, 22:19:10 PM
Quote
It's just a test, not for real. Would be nice with 1000hp+ in a 29er though.

 ;D

lol & your just the man to do it!

Seriously the heads won't be able to flow that I am sure, no matter how much boost you ram down the inlets!
Title: Re: New Guy.
Post by: Grey on June 17, 2013, 07:23:30 AM
Quote
It's just a test, not for real. Would be nice with 1000hp+ in a 29er though.

 ;D

lol & your just the man to do it!

Seriously the heads won't be able to flow that I am sure, no matter how much boost you ram down the inlets!

Haha, we might see that one day.
Will have to make some other reinforcements first so ill start with the smaller one and see if the 29er can hold up for 500whp and 900nm.  :mellow:
Title: Re: New Guy.
Post by: TimoXr4i on June 17, 2013, 20:35:26 PM
Can you tell me how the y piece is made just in front of the throttle bodie? Im planning to make my own, but as short as possible, but im not a metal fabricator, im an electrician... Could make it from copper pipe soldering it with silver.... But wont be as pretty as glassbead blasted metal!

Just buy a 2x2" - 1x2.5" Y-pipe. It will not be as nice as the one i got but it will save you the time and effort to make your own.

Like on this image:
(http://www1.garaget.org/archive/3/2216/292306/292306-2756492.jpg)

Ill see what i van get, maybe i fabricate a part a bit smoother than the y piece you show, found some nice alloy tubing at work, i can use that, and ill find someone who can weld it to ;D
Title: Re: New Guy.
Post by: sierra3dr on July 11, 2013, 22:04:59 PM
good grief!!! It took me ages reading through all that ;D  Very impressive results.  I spend more time at work to fund my (comparing your projects) 'small' project ;D  I have been using static comp ratio formula to reduce the CR. In turn,I've had the pistons machined to create a 13.27cc to lower CR.  I've now learnt that using the static formula does not give a true compression as one of the the valves is open.  All valves will be closed when the piston crown sits 59mm down the cylinder from the deck height.  This is were dynamic formula comes in,I get 8.13:1 with standard parts,i.e pistons etc
Please correct me if I'm wrong
Title: Re: New Guy.
Post by: Dave on July 11, 2013, 23:11:06 PM

It's as complicated as you want to make it.

Don't get too concerned with compression.

Reducing static compression for turbo use is a STD thing to do, you can play about pushing the compression figure higher to chase small gains with the risk of reducing your safety margin & running into all sorts of problems. That's basically the bare bones of it.

You will get varied opinions on it, look at the dyno plots & you will see small gains but nothing exceptional except in mega money builds where loads of things have been custom made.
Title: Re: New Guy.
Post by: Grey on July 12, 2013, 08:17:05 AM

It's as complicated as you want to make it.

Don't get too concerned with compression.

Reducing static compression for turbo use is a STD thing to do, you can play about pushing the compression figure higher to chase small gains with the risk of reducing your safety margin & running into all sorts of problems. That's basically the bare bones of it.

You will get varied opinions on it, look at the dyno plots & you will see small gains but nothing exceptional except in mega money builds where loads of things have been custom made.

I agree,
Some say that it does much and some says it doesn't make anything. Difference is in how the rest of the engine is built and what your goals is. If you compare my 9,0:1 engine with Ghengis, you see right away that there is some differences. He probably don't have the right type of turbo setup, but still there is some differences.
(http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b228/DavidHoward/Minker/Stealth23psiComparison2-1.jpg)

Also, the Skogenracing std. engine on 15psi, compared to a Minker or Daves machine on 15psi you also can see that it gives the same power, on the same fuel, but with std heads and cam.
(http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b228/DavidHoward/Minker/15PSIComparison.jpg)

In my opinion it does a positive increase of power, but where you win in power you get lesser reliability.
Title: Re: New Guy.
Post by: Grey on July 12, 2013, 22:19:22 PM
Ooops.  :rolleyes:
(https://fbcdn-sphotos-a-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/1001494_10201098034165403_5445383_n.jpg)

Time to boost up this sucker to the second level!
Lets try with a set of Mahle pistons and see what 10,5:1 in compression ratio can make.  :wacko:
Title: Re: New Guy.
Post by: Dave on July 13, 2013, 10:53:37 AM
Is that an old picture then Grey or has your Granada engine let go?

I have some testing on a 12V TT with a compression of around 12:1 somewhere vrs same spec but 7.5:1

Think torque was up by 50lbs on 10 psi but HP was the same. (small turbo's)
Title: Re: New Guy.
Post by: Grey on July 15, 2013, 09:45:50 AM
Is that an old picture then Grey or has your Granada engine let go?

I have some testing on a 12V TT with a compression of around 12:1 somewhere vrs same spec but 7.5:1

Think torque was up by 50lbs on 10 psi but HP was the same. (small turbo's)

Naah, I just made a checkup on the engine and clearly it was needed. One whole season killed the bearing and I think I know when the piston broke. I was at a fair and I did a lot of launching and one time the engine temperature got high, so probably that was the big thing. Anyways, this was for the good. The std pistons cannot hold forever at this kind of power so I'll try to see what the Cosworth BOB Mahle pistons will be able to handle without changing them.
(http://www.racemovie.se/pics/grey/SierraRS/Del6/Rebuild.JPG)
Title: Re: New Guy.
Post by: revhead on July 17, 2013, 09:56:38 AM
Is the pent roof chamber in the BOB bigger cc than a late 2.9 12v? I thought with these BOB pistons it would still be 9.5-9.7 in a 12v, the 24v wasn't quite 10:1 stock?
Title: Re: New Guy.
Post by: mk2 cossie on July 17, 2013, 12:50:15 PM
Grey, I've just realised from the pic of the complete package on the floor that the pipe next to the downpipe is the wastegate pipe!  :mellow:

Must be nice and quiet inside when on full boost then  ;D

Revhead, I dont think Grey is lowering the CR for the 12v. Just going to try the better quality Mahle pistons from a 24v  ;)
Title: Re: New Guy.
Post by: Grey on July 17, 2013, 19:43:59 PM
Is the pent roof chamber in the BOB bigger cc than a late 2.9 12v? I thought with these BOB pistons it would still be 9.5-9.7 in a 12v, the 24v wasn't quite 10:1 stock?

The BOB got 9,7:1 as standard, the 12v got 9,0:1. The cc is much lesser in the piston bowl but much more in the head chamber. I have the numbers somewhere but when i was calculating it Before, I got around 10,5:1 with BOB pistons on a regular 12v.

Grey, I've just realised from the pic of the complete package on the floor that the pipe next to the downpipe is the wastegate pipe!  :mellow:

Must be nice and quiet inside when on full boost then  ;D

Revhead, I dont think Grey is lowering the CR for the 12v. Just going to try the better quality Mahle pistons from a 24v  ;)

Wastegate screamer pipe helps alot for top end Power, due to the limits in an regular exhaust. It also sounds really good but LOUD!  :wacko:

Correct, I need better pistons and the E85 fuel should help enough to prevent detonation.
Problem is that I have some limits to get above 500whp today, fuel system is one thing. Lets just start with this and see what I can get. I will boost it until something says stop. Maybe it will be the turbo, maybe it will be the fuel system or maybe it will be something else.  :ph34r:

Cheers!
Title: Re: New Guy.
Post by: Dave on July 18, 2013, 23:13:10 PM

Well the 24V pistons look stronger so fingers crossed for you.  :mellow:

Title: Re: New Guy.
Post by: Grey on July 23, 2013, 15:42:46 PM
I got a lead to a turbo 2.9er engine that never have been used. Hopefully it got some real stuff in the bottom end. If so, there will be some major upgrades to my 535 - 29er.

Also i Dynoed a Sierra Pinto turbo yesterday with std cam and cosworth bottom end. At 98 octane and 2.35 bar of boost it gave 357whp @ 5400rpm and 472wnm.
Very good in my eyes when using only a std pinto cam, what do you guys think?
Title: Re: New Guy.
Post by: capri v8 driver on July 23, 2013, 18:47:06 PM
Quote
At 98 octane and 2.35 bar of boost it gave 357whp @ 5400rpm and 472wnm.
Very good in my eyes when using only a std pinto cam, what do you guys think?

Thats a very good result. The stock pinto cam is pretty good for turbocharging.

Title: Re: New Guy.
Post by: robrs2 on July 23, 2013, 21:07:49 PM
EFi pinto cam?
Title: Re: New Guy.
Post by: AiToR51 on July 23, 2013, 22:05:35 PM
every time I read about a success pinto turbo history without spending a lot (there are second hand cosworth pistons and conrods not expensive) I regret of turboing my 2.0 DOHC and its soft/delicate conrods  ^-^


I like also a lot your work on the 2.9  ;D
Title: Re: New Guy.
Post by: Grey on July 24, 2013, 09:06:19 AM
Thats a very good result. The stock pinto cam is pretty good for turbocharging.

I agree. Big turbo though. Kicked in hard at 5000rpm so i guess thats one of the reasons.

EFi pinto cam?
Yes, EFi cam.

every time I read about a success pinto turbo history without spending a lot (there are second hand cosworth pistons and conrods not expensive) I regret of turboing my 2.0 DOHC and its soft/delicate conrods  ^-^


I like also a lot your work on the 2.9  ;D

Thanks mate!  ;D
Title: Re: New Guy.
Post by: Dave on July 25, 2013, 22:50:10 PM

Quote
At 98 octane and 2.35 bar of boost it gave 357whp @ 5400rpm and 472wnm.
Very good in my eyes when using only a std pinto cam, what do you guys think?


So whats that about 410bhp & 400lbs at the flywheel on 34psi.

There decent YB figures, hp is a little low as can be expected but torque is around YB level at that boost.

So yeah good result.
Title: Re: New Guy.
Post by: robrs2 on July 26, 2013, 18:17:27 PM
It's dam good, I'll have one please
Title: Re: New Guy.
Post by: Grey on October 03, 2013, 19:26:47 PM
Long time since last update. Well, much have happened since last time but not much with the 29er engine. At the moment the work takes a lot of time and I also got stuck in a CVH 1.6 Turbo build for my Fiesta MK1 so when that engine is done the next step will be to fix the 29er.
The 29er turbo I bought was indeed improved for turbo, but in the old fashion way. Lowered compression by taking off material of the piston, heads and putting double head gaskets. Not a good way so I will just go for the BOB pistons.
Title: Re: New Guy.
Post by: Grey on November 06, 2013, 13:40:52 PM
As you might know I'm building a RS-T Fiesta MK1 to have at track days and kick some Ferrari and Porsche butts on my way home from work. At the moment it is taking all my spare time. However, I prepared for a remake of the 2.9er and it will be next when the Fiesta is done.

(http://pics.gzracing.se/pics/fia/del2/klibbor.jpg)
My choice of car, Fiesta MK1, was because of its small size and also its fun to drive. This object was also very nice without rust and only 95000km on the speedometer. The 1.1 Valencia engine didn't make me happy so I collected some RS-turbo parts, a XR3i camshaft and mixed it together with an EFi engine. Result is this:

EFi CVH block with trigger and a home made oil return for the turbo.
(http://pics.gzracing.se/pics/fia/del1/oljeretur6.jpg)

Almost finished result.
(http://pics.gzracing.se/pics/fia/del3/motor.jpg)

(http://pics.gzracing.se/pics/fia/del3/motor3.jpg)

Turbo is a Mitsubishi TD04HL-16T from a Volvo T5. Good for at least 300BHP.
(http://pics.gzracing.se/pics/fia/del3/motor2.jpg)
 

Also I have upgraded to a BC5 gearbox. I could not stand driving it with 4 gears!  :ph34r:
(http://pics.gzracing.se/pics/fia/del2/BC5_test.jpg)

(http://pics.gzracing.se/pics/fia/del2/BC5_done.jpg)

So, I will just keep on updating about this little one until its time for the granny again!  :wacko:
Next update, the engine should be finished. At the moment i have put in 12.9 head bolts, XR3i camshaft and RS-T pistons. With the Mitsu 16T turbo it should give me about 200bhp @ 15psi which will be more than enough. At start i will not run with the turbo though, winter is coming and 100bhp or 200bhp will not make any difference. Also I'm going to show you how easy it is to run a programmable EMS (Engine Management System) without doing anything to the harness, Plug N Play is my melody, and i got just the right thing to make it possible. To make it possible I will install a EDIS4 system that is very easy to work with. More about that next time.  :mellow:


Cheers!
Title: Re: New Guy.
Post by: capri v8 driver on November 06, 2013, 19:23:36 PM
That would be fun to drive.  ;D
Title: Re: New Guy.
Post by: Grey on December 05, 2013, 11:21:11 AM
I lifted the engine from the frame, mainly to be able to mount the rear crankshaft seal. Strange lego-construction of the entire engine can seem yet it is very simple that apparently works fine.  :blink:
(http://pics.gzracing.se/pics/fia/del4/packbox.jpg)

In order to run EFi you have to have some type of trigger, the easiest is to take the built-in trigger that sits against the flywheel. A VR sensor that triggers against a 36-1 wheel that is simply molded into the flywheel.
(http://pics.gzracing.se/pics/fia/del4/trigger.jpg)

The trigger is mounted on the engine block through an adapter triggering against the flywheel.
(http://pics.gzracing.se/pics/fia/del4/trigger2.jpg)

You can easily see where -1 spike is.
(http://pics.gzracing.se/pics/fia/del4/trigger3.jpg)

Then it was time to mount the clutch. I managed to stumble on a new RS-T clutch, so it will go there at first. It should hold for at least 150bhp.
(http://pics.gzracing.se/pics/fia/del4/koppling.jpg)

The oil pan needed a fix, but after an hour it looked like this.
(http://pics.gzracing.se/pics/fia/del4/oljetrag.jpg)

(http://pics.gzracing.se/pics/fia/del4/oljetrag2.jpg)

I was going to run without the heat exchanger at the oil filter, but since some water hoses go there and that winter is rapidly approaching, it's perfectly fine to get the heat up a millisecond faster. :blink:
(http://pics.gzracing.se/pics/fia/del4/motor_sandwitch.jpg)


Next update will be some numbers in the dyno!  :wacko:
Title: Re: New Guy.
Post by: Grey on December 11, 2013, 12:00:49 PM
(http://pics.gzracing.se/pics/fia/del5/fia_dyno.jpg)

Well, it was time to let "FIA" show what she was made of. This day it was make-or-break!  :P

The first pull was not that very impressive, 34.15whp and 66.7wnm. After some spark retard things got better! Top note for the day was after increasing 4 degrees, she landed on 37.67whp and 69.5wnm, but on the second pull she gave less whp but more wnm: 36.77whp and 72.7wnm which is the official result. (don't bother the wnm text at the whp line, it is actually a typo from me when i got carried away!  :blink:)
(http://pics.gzracing.se/pics/fia/del5/fia_resultat.jpg)

If you look close you can see some interesting things about this engine that I can explain. The WNM top is because of the camshaft. It was constant for every pull and every engine got it more or less. On this engine it was more noticeable. The WHP decrease after 5600rpm is due to valve float, I actually heard it every time passing 5700rpm. Valve float at 5700rpm is not that very good. I guess it was not built for much power.  ;)

If you calculate it with 15% drive losses it will be about 43bhp and 85nm which is very close to factory specs: 53bhp and 80nm. Since the lady is 32 years old i think it is probable. However, it is not much to drive around with so now it's time for some RS-turboing!  :wacko:
Title: Re: New Guy.
Post by: Grey on January 23, 2014, 10:59:59 AM
I will make a fast update of what happened with FIA...

There is such a scarcity of space so there is a lot of thinking to get everything in place. To get it all as smoothly as possible I have tried to use the original stuff. This is not the easiest but I've managed to come across the right parts that should fit . The biggest problem has been finding a generator that fits, which I have now taken from a 89-90 Fiesta with the 1.4L CVH engine . This generator is extremely tight and pointing downwards and backwards instead of on the Escort or newer Fiestas where the generator is pointing upwards and forwards.

But , I've obviously not been idle just for this. No, now is the engine and the gearbox together and seals at the drive shafts are changed so now it will not leak any more there. Meanwhile, I've built a engine mount that fits the standard chassis mount. I took the original XR3i bracket, re welded it and boxed everything so it holds good. Instead of hanging the engine, it now rests on a rubber mount, which feels much better.
(http://pics.gzracing.se/pics/fia/del6/motor3.jpg)

I have also done a bit of castling where the expansion tank had taken the place of the battery , the battery has been taken washer fluid reservoir and place the washer fluid reservoir has become less and must be put behind the tower on the left side where the expansion tank was from the beginning. Pictures will come.

On this picture you can see the huge washer fluid reservoir bottom right. It is gone and is replaced by a battery.
(http://pics.gzracing.se/pics/fia/del6/motor.jpg)

Because I 'll run an EFI setup, I had to fix a fuel pump and a return tube. This was easily done by inserting an in-tank pump, in this case a Scorpio Cosworth pump which should suffice well for the power I intended to pick .
For this I made a fuel return and everything worked very good when I tested it, it is smooth when the entire fixture sitting on the side so you do not even need down with the fuel-tank. :)
(http://pics.gzracing.se/pics/fia/del6/fuelpump.jpg)

The engine as it was Nov 26, 2013.
(http://pics.gzracing.se/pics/fia/del6/motor2.jpg)

I even made a hole in the firewall for the harness so the next update should be a little electricity (both EDIS4 and generator) , yeey !  ;D
Title: Re: New Guy.
Post by: Grey on January 23, 2014, 11:26:10 AM
As you can imagine my happiness then FIA was running again. Power difference is noticeably larger . 1st gear is now pretty useless while 2nd gear has on good road conditions good grip. The speedo out has not been a problem, even though 160km/h is not fancy it's a big difference compared with before when 140km/h was a slow process to reach. The sound is extremely cozy when the cam starts to work at 3000rpm and the engine produces a combined howling / roaring through the 2" pipe. Overall impression is quite simply NICE.  :blink:

Since I have not updated in a while, it will now come in retrospect.

Getting there The engine and gearbox were not directly a problem, it was when everything else was going to fit under the bonnet it became a problem. One must understand that when you put in a far too " big " engine in a too small engine room it gets full pretty fast. Yesterday I put in the last pieces and I can assure you that it will be a challenge to put in a turbo setup. Anything goes but it's been pure luck that I have found the correct parts to fit.
(http://pics.gzracing.se/pics/fia/del7/under_konstruktion.jpg)

Everything went well when the engine was stripped but when the intake, alternator, manifolds, radiator, fan, coil, harness, water hoses, expansion tank, battery, washer fluid tank, air filter and air supply would fit so there was not much room to spare. All is well stuffed but without the risk of accidents or something like that, which feels good.
Here is a picture of before VS after so you'll understand a little better.
(http://pics.gzracing.se/pics/fia/del8/ohv.jpg) (http://pics.gzracing.se/pics/fia/del8/cvh.jpg)

Anyway, the pictures below you can see a little what it is about and how the hoses go.
(http://pics.gzracing.se/pics/fia/del7/coil_mount.jpg)

(http://pics.gzracing.se/pics/fia/del7/coolant.jpg)

It's tight to the radiator and down pipe has a tight fit between frame leg and the engine.
(http://pics.gzracing.se/pics/fia/del7/downpipe.jpg)


I've been talking a lot about EDIS4 and there is reason for it. Since EDIS and TFI is fords most common trigger in the 90's , it's worth writing a separate line on this.
(http://pics.gzracing.se/pics/fia/del7/harness2.jpg)

(http://www.autosportlabs.net/images/5/54/EDIS_system_diagram.png)

EDIS is the trigger system where a box control trigger and ignition, and then communicate with the EMS-box . This makes the whole system work very well and you'll also receive a perfectly OK coil pack that can handle pretty much power. There is also a plug n play kit that lets you simply plug in the PnP box in the original harness and start remap , it cant get easier. I will show this later in another update.

It thus I can easily run the standard EMS and then easily switch to PnP box ( which will happen sooner than intended ) is a very simple and quick procedure which has many advantages.
If you do not know anything abou electricity or do not want to keep working on it; then this is the right way to go. EDIS fits all motors and with a PnP box you can tune all types of engines, whether it is 4, 6 or 8 cylinders . Smooth!  :mellow:

The harness was needed to be modified slightly because I did not have any relays or fuses in the harness so an early Saturday morning and a cup of coffee I started.
(http://pics.gzracing.se/pics/fia/del7/harness.jpg)

(http://pics.gzracing.se/pics/fia/del7/harness3.jpg)
After some searching I found the features.
Overall it was 6st used:
* Battery plus
* Switching Plus
* + To COIL pack
* Fuel pump relay
* + To Lambda
* Output for tachometer

So when all was finished soldered I put on some cloth tape.
(http://pics.gzracing.se/pics/fia/del7/harness4.jpg)

Then it was time to hook up everything. There was not an awful lot of time so it had to be mediocre this time, I'll switch cable-shoe ahead but function before is the melody this time.
(http://pics.gzracing.se/pics/fia/del7/fuse.jpg)

EDIS module ended up under the battery...
(http://pics.gzracing.se/pics/fia/del7/edis4.jpg)

...and the standard MAP-sensor ended up on the firewall.
(http://pics.gzracing.se/pics/fia/del7/map_sensor.jpg)

Washer fluid reservoir could take place where old expansion tank was!
(http://pics.gzracing.se/pics/fia/del7/spolar.jpg)

FIA also got new eyes since the old ones were really bad. One glass fell off so it was a must...  :blink:
(http://pics.gzracing.se/pics/fia/del7/lykta.jpg)

And now it looks something like this. The battery is temporarily attached but it works.
(http://pics.gzracing.se/pics/fia/del7/motor.jpg)


It will some small fix to make her pretty but the key this time was to get her ready with the RS-T EFI-engine and BA5 gearbox.  :wacko:

More to come...
Title: Re: New Guy.
Post by: capri v8 driver on January 23, 2014, 19:06:36 PM
Its looking good!!
Title: Re: New Guy.
Post by: Grey on February 05, 2014, 14:21:59 PM
Well, I just had the opportunity to weigh the little rocket.

Dirty like hell, she weighed in without driver and with about half tank and a few kg junk, the result was surprising!  :ph34r:
(http://pics.gzracing.se/pics/fia/del9/Fia_vikt.png)

Before summer I will clean out the interior so she will probably get even lighter!
I guess she will be very fun this summer.  :wacko:
Title: Re: New Guy.
Post by: capri v8 driver on February 05, 2014, 20:08:39 PM
740 kilo's is the normal weight of a mk1 fiesta 1.1 ;D

Mk1 1.1 base: 730kg [kerb weight]
Mk1 1.3: 775kg
Mk1 XR2: 800kg

I really like the xr2 version.
Title: Re: New Guy.
Post by: Grey on February 07, 2014, 14:08:51 PM
740 kilo's is the normal weight of a mk1 fiesta 1.1 ;D

Mk1 1.1 base: 730kg [kerb weight]
Mk1 1.3: 775kg
Mk1 XR2: 800kg

I really like the xr2 version.

Oh, in the papers of the car it says 820kg but maybe that is calculated with the driver. However, 700kg and 200bhp+ sounds like a fun weight to Power ratio!  :wacko:
Title: Re: New Guy.
Post by: Dave on February 08, 2014, 00:53:19 AM
Ha Ha yes it does sound fun, but only 200bhp, I'm sure that will get boring after a day or two as it's only about the same power to weight as a Porsche 911 GT3  ;D :wacko:
Title: Re: New Guy.
Post by: capri v8 driver on February 08, 2014, 19:14:28 PM
it does bring you to the supermarket and back  ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: New Guy.
Post by: Grey on February 09, 2014, 21:04:05 PM
Hehe, it should do the job.  :blink:

Today I put FIA in the dyno and tuned her. I found about 5whp and a lot better fuel economy. Also she was to lean on high revs so that is sorted now. In total, it is a whole new car to drive.

The Power?  :blink:
77whp and 113wnm so it's about what a std 1.6 CVH has (89bhp and 98 ft·lb). However I got 8.0:1 pistons in it so it is pretty ok I think.

The old 1.1 OHV Engine made about 37whp and 73wnm.
So, it made more than double whp and 40wnm more to change to the CVH Engine that only got 0.5l bigger.

Would be nice with a Zetec blacktop though...  :wacko: